Another Super Scientific B3D survey! How do you feel about 'diminshing returns' between generations?

[Shifty Geezer]

To gauge a sense of how people feel about the subjective issue of diminishing returns, as consoles have advanced past the PS2 era, how did/do you personally feel about the game experience - the emotional impact of the games visuals, scope, and tech driven qualities - from one generation to the next? I'll leave that to you to consider that just at launch, mid gen, after the whole thing, etc. It's a very subjective question about how you felt about a generation which doesn't really need justifying.

This isn't to diminish the value of other factors like usability or library, but just to focus on whether next-gen visuals continue to wow each generation or if there's something of a tailing off now despite a reasonable maintaining of the technological progress per generation.

For me, for example, PS3 to PS2 felt like new generation, so Exponential. PS4 feels like a higher definition PS3 so that for me is Linear, and what I see of PS5 generation games is also a Linear advance on what I'm used to.

 

[Nesh]

We should have also included diminishing

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Reflecting, I think in real terms, PS2 > PS3 was transformative, but that's not how I feel about it. I guess nothing compares to PS1 > PS2 era after 2000. Prior to Y2K, all gaming advances were so significant and exciting!

 

[DavidGraham]

PS2 to PS3 is certainly transformative, looking at the difference between GTA 3 and GTA 4 should be a clear enough evidence of that.
PS3 to PS4 was also transformative, looking at Uncharted 3 vs Uncharted 4 or Alan Wake vs Quantum Break should make that case clear too.

PS4 to PS5 so far is less than linear in my opinion.

 

[BRiT]

What is Trasformative versus Exponential?
How much of a difference is between Transformative and Exponential?
Is Transformative the highest tier?

 

[Theeoo]

Transformative -> exponential -> linear.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What is Trasformative versus Exponential?

What it feels like to you, really. Transformative is where you feel we're headed into new territory and the games on the new system are unlike anything before. Exponential is where the games feel far superior to the previous generation but not as significant as a whole transformation. And Linear is where it's progression but not which doesn't feel as significant as exponential.

There's no distinction between whether the feeling comes from limitations in technology or if gamers are becoming jaded/immune/unrealistic. Just sounding out how gamers feel about the progression of game wows.

 

[dobwal]

What is Trasformative versus Exponential?
How much of a difference is between Transformative and Exponential?
Is Transformative the highest tier?

I look at the PS1/N64/Sega gen as transformative. Where we see a major shift from 2D to texture-mapped 3D graphics. Everything else since (graphic wise) I would consider exponential to linear. If we see a major shift to something like VR during a gen, I would look at that as transformative too.

Also, I would consider online functionality with the 360 and PS3 as transformative as it completely changed the social and multiplayer aspect of gaming.

 

[Karamazov]

Ps3 to ps4 was maybe slightly less than ps2 to ps3, but ! It brought VR which was transformative to me.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I voted:

PS2 > PS3 transformative
PS3 > PS4 exponential
PS4 > PS5 transformative​

PS3 brought a ton of technical enhancements, with pixel shaders being the absolute biggest graphical improvement and Cell providing an insane amount of grunt to run complex calculations behind the scenes. Plus, proper online came to PlayStaton. PS2 supported online in a limited way.

PS4 really just felt like they were delivering what was promised previous gen, particularly with HD resolutions where many PS3 games delivered around 600p resolutions. A far cry from the HD (720p/1080i/1080p) promise but at least high geometry environments - particularly vegetation - were now viable.

PS5 really feels like there are few barriers left. 60fps is generally a given and almost everything is at a resolution (1440p+) that I cannot discern the distance I sit from my 55" LG OLED. Loadings times are speedy - everything is just so damn convenient. The transformative aspect for me is not what PS5 does, it's all the compromises that it doesn't have that PS4 did.

 

[eastmen]

The last real generation to me was the n64/ps1/saturn to dreamcast. That was the last time I was blown away from the graphical changes.

I think after that due to the pc the changes just rolled out over a generation. I also think when you look back at previous generations the games you saw at the start of the generation pale in comparison to later in the generation. This generation is plagued with a world wide pandemic in which work switched to work from home. That has never happened in this industry before. So who knows this could be the biggest graphical jump

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I voted:
Plus, proper online came to PlayStaton...

​

Loadings times are speedy - everything is just so damn convenient...

These aren't in keeping with the intentions though as spelled out in the OP. This poll is just focussing on the visual/game aspect, not the experience of the machine. Putting that another way, if PS5 was exactly the same graphics as PS4 at 60 fps instead of 30 fps, but the rest of the console was super fast loading and free ice-cream and a controller that gives you a back massage as you play, even if the console experience is considered transformative, the voting here would have to be linear because the game experience is no different, just a smidgeon better.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

These aren't in keeping with the intentions though as spelled out in the OP. This poll is just focussing on the visual/game aspect, not the experience of the machine.

Fine. Then bonkers levels of geometry, new levels of vegetation, new levels of draw distances and mostly at 60fps and 120fps. Plus sprinkles of RT, which whichever way you cut it is improving the lighting/shadows and overall feel of environments.

This is a far cry from the PS4/Pro mostly - kind of - hitting 30fps. Except when it didn't.

 

[swaaye]

I don't think I am THAT blown away by PS5. Deathloop needs to be run on the lowest of 3 graphics settings to maintain 60 fps, which is no RT and some lower resolution. I put up with the middle setting which is almost 60 fps but not really and no RT. I feel like PS5 is mostly a 60 fps PS4 Pro, unless they try for some RT and then there must be compromises in speed or resolution.

And then there is the horrible suffering I've endured being unable to re-skin the dash.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I don't think I am THAT blown away by PS5. Deathloop needs to be run on the lowest of 3 graphics settings to maintain 60 fps, which is no RT and some lower resolution.

Not all games are going to offer everything that is possible technically.

if you're going to judge a console by games that are not aiming for that, you should you not judge PS4 by Uncharted 4, The Last of Us Part II and God of War, but by Life of Black Tiger.

 

[swaaye]

Not all games are going to offer everything that is possible technically.

if you're going to judge a console by games that are not aiming for that, you should you not judge PS4 by Uncharted 4, The Last of Us Part II and God of War, but by Life of Black Tiger?

Well it is nice to see Until Dawn, Days Gone and Horizon at 60fps reinforcing that PS5 = PS4 Pro 60 fps feeling.

It just seems like it has enough GPU now to manage mostly 4K60 with the best PS4 graphics, but it's not remotely fast enough for much in the way of RT. And moving to Zen cores helped tremendously too. I'm sure a PS5 Pro will come along.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Well it is nice to see Until Dawn, Days Gone and Horizon at 60fps reinforcing that PS5 = PS4 Pro 60 fps feeling.

True, but this feels like something that is achievable with minimum effort. PS5 Games like Spider-Man/Miles Morales and Ratchet & Clank are really only a glimpse of what we'll see in the future. Just like Killzone Shadowfall, Knack (lulz), Infamous Second Son and other PS4 games that came out in that first year hinted at being possible.

I was impressed by Assassin's Creed Black Flag which I played on my PS4 that first Christmas. Assassin's Creed Unity is just on a different level in graphics and gameplay. I think folks can forget how impressive early games can feel compared to the previous gen but also how quickly they get leapfrogged as devs learn improved techniques and as the APIs and tools improve.

 

[Rangers]

To gauge a sense of how people feel about the subjective issue of diminishing returns, as consoles have advanced past the PS2 era, how did/do you personally feel about the game experience - the emotional impact of the games visuals, scope, and tech driven qualities - from one generation to the next? I'll leave that to you to consider that just at launch, mid gen, after the whole thing, etc. It's a very subjective question about how you felt about a generation which doesn't really need justifying.

This isn't to diminish the value of other factors like usability or library, but just to focus on whether next-gen visuals continue to wow each generation or if there's something of a tailing off now despite a reasonable maintaining of the technological progress per generation.

For me, for example, PS3 to PS2 felt like new generation, so Exponential. PS4 feels like a higher definition PS3 so that for me is Linear, and what I see of PS5 generation games is also a Linear advance on what I'm used to.

Yeah I'm agreeing with this. Maybe it has something to do with age as I see a lot of people seemingly more impressed by Ps3>PS4. It only makes sense if that was all they've known LOL.

I was pretty impressed graphically with Ark Raiders, Matrix Demo, Hellblade, and even to some extent Forespoken and Forbidden West coming out of TGA. Giving me hope maybe PS4>Ps5 will be a bigger transition than I expected, especially when some big budget devs go current gen only. But that may still be 2-3 years away. OTOH stuff like Halo Infinite screams uprezed last gen. Nicely polished uprezed last gen, but uprezed last gen.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yeah, age and point of reference may affect things. It'd be interesting to know if tech advances are met with the same wow now among teens as they were in previous generations. Are they sensitive to more subtle differences?

 

[PSman1700]

PS4 to PS5 so far is less than linear in my opinion.

There’s no other to choose there, most voted linear for ps4>ps5.
Its the least large jump in graphics in PS generation shift in history. But that was to be expected, DF even noted we should keep expectations in check.