AMD: R8xx Speculation

[trinibwoy]

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Whoa there! It's just a graphics card.....no faith required

But yeah all will be clear once we have actual numbers.

 

[neliz]

What part does it make you laugh the most?

For me, personally, it's when he copy-paste's lines from a marketing shill and has to add errors to make it look like he wrote it himself.

Whoa there! It's just a graphics card.....no faith required

I sold my GTS-640's today, I pray that the guy doesn't come and beat me up when the bumps start to fail.

 

[Florin]

Fuad is saying AMD is lucky if there is one DX11 title this year, some spin that is.

He's probably not far off the mark either. Targetting DX11 this year does not make good business sense.

Seems rather harmless spin compared to some other rumour mongers out there.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Fuad is saying AMD is lucky if there is one DX11 title this year, some spin that is.

Heh, so there's a chance Dirt 2 won't ship this year? Since it's already confirmed that's a Dx11 title.

Not to mention the other rumored titles. And additionally titles getting Dx11 patches when Dx11 hits.

Regards,
SB

 

[Arty]

He's probably not far off the mark either. Targetting DX11 this year does not make good business sense.

Seems rather harmless spin compared to some other rumour mongers out there.

Why does it make bad business sense? The effort to port to D3D11 isnt significant. On top of that if your game engine is designed to be D3D11 from ground up it can still work on all existing DX10 hardware.

To me it seems like D3D11 is bad (or not needed) spin looks non-sense and its coming more and more only from Fuad.

Heh, so there's a chance Dirt 2 won't ship this year? Since it's already confirmed that's a Dx11 title.

Not to mention the other rumored titles. And additionally titles getting Dx11 patches when Dx11 hits.

Regards,
SB

In bizarro world.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Why does it make bad business sense? The effort to port to D3D11 isnt significant. On top of that if your game engine is designed to be D3D11 from ground up it can still work on all existing DX10 hardware.

To me it seems like D3D11 is bad (or not needed) spin looks non-sense and its coming more and more only from Fuad.

Well, you have to admit it's bad business sense to Nvidia. And by extension I'd guess that TWIMTBP partners are going to be heavily discouraged from releasing any Dx11 titles until Nvidia ships a Dx11 card.

And if one of them slips up, they'll probably have to remove Dx11 since it'll be buggy, and not put it back in until Nvidia ships a Dx11 card.

Regards,
SB

 

[Florin]

Why does it make bad business sense? The effort to port to D3D11 isnt significant. On top of that if your game engine is designed to be D3D11 from ground up it can still work on all existing DX10 hardware.

No games based on engines designed for DX11 from the ground up will come out this year. Targetting anything other than DX9/console level is limiting your audience to a tiny subset of buyers. Doesn't make sense.

There will be some titles with a DX11 mode for buzzword compliancy, but it remains to be seen how many will be out this year.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

It doesn't have to target Dx11 (built from the ground up) to show immediate gains.

Most of the titles that implemented Dx10.1 showed an immediate average 20% increase in FPS despite the titles targetting Dx9. And the few that didn't (Stalker) instead used the extra performance gained to add more features.

And Dx11 will have the same benefits (and more) since it's a superset of Dx10.1. So performance gains like that can be immediately realized. Since that basic feature would just be leveraging technology that's been available for 2 years now, but up until Dx11 was limited to one vendor due to the other not being able to execute it.

Regards,
SB

 

[Arty]

No games based on engines designed for DX11 from the ground up will come out this year. Targetting anything other than DX9/console level is limiting your audience to a tiny subset of buyers. Doesn't make sense.

There will be some titles with a DX11 mode for buzzword compliancy, but it remains to be seen how many will be out this year.

Yes, I know that. I was trying to point out an extreme corner case that even a D3D11 engine will run on older hardware. Not a bad business decision unless somebody is intentionally stopping you to do it.

Well, you have to admit it's bad business sense to Nvidia. And by extension I'd guess that TWIMTBP partners are going to be heavily discouraged from releasing any Dx11 titles until Nvidia ships a Dx11 card.

And if one of them slips up, they'll probably have to remove Dx11 since it'll be buggy, and not put it back in until Nvidia ships a Dx11 card.

Regards,
SB

You said better than what I was trying to say.

 

[Florin]

It doesn't have to target Dx11 (built from the ground up) to show immediate gains.

Most of the titles that implemented Dx10.1 showed an immediate average 20% increase in FPS despite the titles targetting Dx9. And the few that didn't (Stalker) instead used the extra performance gained to add more features.

With much the same going for DX10 without the .1, which is a much more sensible and indeed popular target.

 

[trinibwoy]

I sold my GTS-640's today, I pray that the guy doesn't come and beat me up when the bumps start to fail.

Yeah I was considering putting my 285 on the market too since it's currently getting squeezed on this 30 incher in some titles. But that would be kinda silly until I have more concrete info about Cypress performance. Hopefully I'll be able to get ~ $200 for it even after the launch.

 

[Florin]

And if one of them slips up, they'll probably have to remove Dx11 since it'll be buggy, and not put it back in until Nvidia ships a Dx11 card.

Can't get enough of that particular conspiracy theory, eh? Even though there is no financial incentive for Ubisoft in the TWIMTBP program, not a shred of proof out there that Nvidia forced or even asked them to do anything, and several independent sites other than Ubisoft itself noting image quality differences..

 

[Silent_Buddha]

With much the same going for DX10 without the .1, which is a much more sensible and indeed popular target.

Except that 10.1 almost universally showed a 20% improvement in performance over 10.0. And as pointed out in the rare cases it doesn't (Stalker) it was used instead to implement more features.

Dx11 should immediately benefit from that when compared to Dx10.0/9.x. And that's just Dx10.1 features becoming more prominent now that both vendors will have to support it. And ignores things that Dx11 itself brings to the table.

Regards,
SB

 

[neliz]

Anyone that thinks DX11 is not worth it (the better part of an evening of coding) needs to go back to his IHV and ask for a new set of text to spew at this community.

Or maybe they'll change their mind when some numbers "leak" in the not so distant future?

 

[Florin]

Anyone that thinks DX11 is not worth it (the better part of an evening of coding) needs to go back to his IHV and ask for a new set of text to spew at this community.

Anyone who thinks we're going to have a substantial number of DX11 titles this year needs to refresher in market dynamics.

 

[stevem]

Can't get enough of that particular conspiracy theory, eh?

You know, Wavey once asked about a conspiracy theory...

 

[Wirmish]

Can't get enough of that particular conspiracy theory, eh? Even though there is no financial incentive for Ubisoft in the TWIMTBP program, not a shred of proof out there that Nvidia forced or even asked them to do anything, and several independent sites other than Ubisoft itself noting image quality differences..

Assassin's Creed : First DX10.1 game in the world... but no DX10.1 sticker on the box, no mention of DX10.1 in the trailers, no DX10.1 on the docs, no DX10.1 advertising, nothing. Strange no ? It's only the FIRST DX10.1 game in the world, so what ?

"There are rumors that Nvidia may have threatened Ubisoft to pull from co-advertising deals, which are said to have a value of less than $2 million." -Rage3D

"Ubisoft are at the forefront of technology adoption, as showcased with the fantastic Assassin's Creed title. In this instance our developer relations team worked directly with the developer and found an area of code that could be executed more optimally under DX10.1 operation, thus benefiting the ATI Radeon HD 3000 Series." - ATi's Developer Relations team

"Nvidia never paid for and will not pay for anything with Ubi." - Derek Perez, director of public relations at Nvidia

"Michael Beadle confirmed to us that Ubisoft's participation in TWIMTBP was strictly a co-marketing deal, and that Nvidia did not pay Ubisoft any money as a result of the deal."

Marketing isn't free, and a perceived or real threat to lose that marketing support would certainly have financial implications...


Remember the "Chuck Patch" ?

 

[Ailuros]

Geez I can't believe we have to warm up that old tired soup again.

 

[Arty]

Anyone who thinks we're going to have a substantial number of DX11 titles this year needs to refresher in market dynamics.

Did anyone say D3D11 titles would flood the market this year? No
Did anyone say no D3D11 titles this year? Yes, Fuad did and by extension you did too on top of saying D3D11 isnt worth it.

 

[Ailuros]

Well feel free to create a poll for what reason anyone would buy a 5870 for and include an answer for it being the fastest single chip GPU available for existing games and I'll tick that one w/o 2nd thought.