All purpose sales and sales rumors/anecdotes thread next gen+
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You make a good point, never thought to look at the financial statements in detail, and surprised not more gaming sites have done this. However, I seem to remember we definitely do have some numbers for games where the reverse is true. So it is also partly a matter of how you want to look at things.
I thought this was an interesting article on Eurogamer:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/valve-why-the-pc-is-the-future-article
Not sure. But there is a rather significant gap almost every past quarter.
From what little hints of info I've seen by GAF posters in the know, full retail game downloads on consoles is still quite low. I get the feel less than 10%. For whatever reasons. I'm sure it will grow somewhat this gen as the new gen consoles get everything digital day and date, and people get more accustomed to it, of course.
Just to point out I'd think for PC in UK/USA the ratio of downloads to retail on PC (for big titles like WD) is assuredly at least 3:1 (possibly much higher). For consoles that ratio is likely more like 1:10.
Of course, it wont come near to making up that 98:2 retail sales gap, but PC isn't quite as terribly bad off as those numbers make it appear.
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
Oh, I'd say so for sure. After reading reviews and watching game play of WD this past week, I decided it wasn't worth purchasing. After reading reviews and watching game play of WtNO, I decided I'd buy it - if it didn't involve buying a PS4 or Xb0x, or new CPU & video card for my PC.
As interested in the game as I was, it still isn't a "system seller" but yet certainly isn't amazing enough that I'm going to "waste" $60 to buy it on my PS360, either.
My point being that I see little need to continue to make these cross generational titles because they'll either be good enough to move next gen systems or they need to be less expensive if they're going to be reduced performers on last gen systems.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Sure, for packaged triple A retail experiences (exactly what I like to play) PC is clearly second fiddle. Heck that's why many console ports get delayed a few weeks or months on PC.
But overall revenue, who knows, much PC revenue is probably less traditional stuff like League of Legends, or WoW subs. Where the sheer gigantic base of PC cant be matched.
The most recent info I could find is the company that makes league of legends (and thats a huge PC game) made $200 million revenue in 2013 (1000 employees)
activision blizzard $4500 million revenue 2013 (~6500 emploees)
revenue
20% Online subscriptions (this includes WOW/pc stuff but also console stuff)
7% PC
21% PS
26% XB
5% wii/U
14% mobile/handheld
7% Distribution (whatever that is)
so the PC is <27% revenue, far less than their console revenue which is >52% Remember this is activision who with WOW have the biggest PC moneymaker.
Ive heard some ppl claim oh yes but if you count digital PC actually generates more money than consoles, I say show me the money folks
activisions not getting it, the current darling 'league of legends' aintr getting it, who's getting these 10s of billions, the indies?
Sure I dont disagree with that, but pirated software aint exactly doing the companies balance sheet a world of goodAnd I'd be willing to bet there are more PC players playing that game than console gamers combined.
Well, I'm not really disagreeing. I think one part of the picture though is Korea/Asia.
A little googling brought me this for some numbers
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...of-legends-2013-revenue-topped-USD600m-report
Does seem like for the big westerns (which is what's relevant to me), EA, Activision, and Ubisoft, I guess console is lots bigger.
A little googling brought me this for some numbers
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...of-legends-2013-revenue-topped-USD600m-report
Does seem like for the big westerns (which is what's relevant to me), EA, Activision, and Ubisoft, I guess console is lots bigger.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
According to NPD the top 10 titles for 2013 accounted for 38% of all game sales. In 2012, the top 10 titles accounted for 30% of all game sales. It appears that the game market is growing increasingly more top heavy.
Some more interesting numbers from Activision-Blizzard.
Product sales revenue (digital + physical) - 3.201 billion USD
Subcription, licensing, and other revenue - 1.382 billion USD
Activision (mostly console revenue) - 2.895 billion USD
Blizzard (mostly PC revenue) - 1.124 billion USD
Retail GAAP revenue - 2.701 billion USD.
Digital GAAP revenue - 1.559 billion USD
It's probably safe to say the majority of the difference between Products sales revenue and Retail revenue is due mostly to PC digitial distribution as both PS4 and Xbox 4 came at the very end of the year.
North America revenue - 2.414 billion USD
Europe revenue - 1.826 billion USD
Asia Pacific - 0.343 billion USD
Shows why North America is still so important. Especially when taking into consideration localization (1 language for NA versus multiple for Europe + Asia Pacific). Which is a good indication of why console companies try so hard to "win" North America even if it means potentially losing sales in Europe + Asia Pacific. I imagine the potential for that to change is quite dramatic if China completely opens up for consoles AND you manage to convince most of the Chinese to buy instead of pirate. PC gaming is huge in China but generates virtually no revenue unless you are an MMO or follow a F2P monetization method. Unfortunately, I don't see both of those things happening with regards to China in the near future.
Going to platform sales, which you represented as percentages instead of numbers. The split between Xbox and Playstation numbers does well to illustrate again why NA is so important. Despite PS4 selling more units than Xbox One and despite worldwide install numbers being basically equal between PS3/X360, the combined sales for Xbox titles still held a comfortable lead over the Playstation titles. I expect that to change for 2014 with Playstation leading as they'll likely have "won" NA convincingly by the end of 2014.
One other interesting thing of note from platform revenues. For PC...
2011 - 282 million
2012 - 675 million
2013 - 340 million
And then the notes for that...
That quite handily illustrates how one title can absolutely determine whether a company/division/publisher/developer is profitable or not. Going by that, Diablo III likely had a greater than 400 million USD impact on Blizzard's revenue for 2012. That would have represented ~8-9% of the company's total revenue. But that shouldn't be surprising as for 2012, Diablo III managed to stay in the NPD top 10 for a long time despite being released only on PC.
Something that some people might find interesting is the cost of sales. IE - how much money is being spent in order to publish, market, and sell game software.
Product costs (packaging, distribution, duplication, etc.) - 1.053 billion USD
Online subscription costs - 0.204 billion USD
Software royalty and amortization costs - 0.187 billion USD
Intellectual property license costs - 0.087 billion USD
Product developement costs - 0.584 billion USD
Sales and marketing costs - 0.606 billion USD
General and administrative costs (this would include property costs like utilities, etc.) - 0.490 billion USD
Income tax (represents 23.4% of pretax income) - 0.309 billion USD
Publishing games isn't cheap. It is more expensive to package, distribute and sell retail product than it is to actually develope said product.
Sure but imagine the impact on a company's bottom line if they can get even 5-10% of PC piraters to purchase instead of pirate. Especially when you look at the rampant pirating in China and the SEA (Southeast Asia) economic region. Even if it was only say 20-30% of the price of the title in Western markets. If it was digital distribution only, the developer/publisher wouldn't even lose that much in comparison to the retail product in Western markets.
Regards,
SB
It costs way more for a less functional product (can't take to a friend, lend to a friend, or resell). That why!
Good news continue rolling from Ubi.
http://www.4-traders.com/UBISOFT-EN...SALES-RECORD-FOR-LAUNCH-OF-A-NEW-IP-18538666/
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Interesting article. But its not AAA games like WD or BF that driving the PC market now.
Valve doesn't mention the company when talking about gaming as a service, but all the majors are most likely looking at Tencent (a chinese company) and looking to emulate them at least on the PC gaming side.
Tencent is mostly centered around internet services including gaming. Its a major player in f2p. The top three revenue generators in the f2p space are all associated with tencent and had a combined revenue of close to 2 billion dollars in 2013. They own 98% or riot games, 48% of Epic and 12% of Activision. All while being just a 10 year old company with with a market cap that would make any major blush. We are talking $150 billion in 2014, more than all the majors combined.
If AAA titles on PCs performed anywhere near consoles, you probably wouldn't see majors treating PC ports like step children. AAA PC saving grace will probably be their lower level api which will bring them closer to their console counterparts and ease development.
But, majors are more than likely turning their attention to titles like TF2 where the emphasis is creating a revenue stream that last for years. New titles like Epic's Fortnite is probably the tip of the iceberg.
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Watch Dogs week 1 sells 4 million
https://www.ubisoftgroup.com/en-US/press/detail.aspx?cid=tcm:99-146238-16&ctid=tcm:95-27313-32
I believe they were targeting 6.3 million total sales for profitability, which should seem easily in reach.
https://www.ubisoftgroup.com/en-US/press/detail.aspx?cid=tcm:99-146238-16&ctid=tcm:95-27313-32
I believe they were targeting 6.3 million total sales for profitability, which should seem easily in reach.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
And that is part of the key to being profitable in the PC space. Make it so that pirater's cannot play your full game without paying for it ("pay to win") or get less customization content ("pay for convenience"). You give the base game away for free, and then leave it up to individuals to decide how much they want to pay for additional features that aren't included in the base game. Most player won't pay. But many will pay multiple times what a retail game costs (talking hundreds and even thousands of dollars from single players).
Using myself as an example, I've spent almost 200 USD on Warframe (and likely another 80 USD when the next Prime Pack comes out). But only 30 USD on Smite. And nothing on LoL and DOTA 2. But I also know a few people that have spent over 500 USD on LoL and a few hundred on DOTA 2 but nothing on Warframe.
It's why many game developers look at these types of revenue models. It makes pirates irrelevant as it is impossible to pirate the game's paid content. And it provides an alternative to expensive MMOs (also immune to pirating) and SP games based upon MMO server/client principles (Diablo III PC and Guild Wars 1 being the only outstanding entries on that front).
Also why consoles games are also chasing the F2P model as above.
Not like we'll ever get to see the numbers for F2P games, but it would be interesting to compare the console versions to the PC version. I'd speculate that the PC version will make the developers signficantly more than the console versions once the console space is as saturated with F2P games as the PC space currently is.
Regards,
SB
UK top 10
Estimates?
Germany top 10
France a week behind, top 5 only
It's kind of interesting even though XBO is probably being beaten like 4-1 by PS4 in countries like France, it still manages to place big titles ahead of most anything besides the PS4 version. Just shows how weak other platforms are I guess, and how fast current gen became the main game in town.
Estimates?
Germany top 10
France a week behind, top 5 only
It's kind of interesting even though XBO is probably being beaten like 4-1 by PS4 in countries like France, it still manages to place big titles ahead of most anything besides the PS4 version. Just shows how weak other platforms are I guess, and how fast current gen became the main game in town.
Yeah, those UK splits are really impressive if only because it shows new gen represented over 75% of sales for Watch_Dogs.
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