[360, PS3] Borderlands

[RancidLunchmeat]

Heh, as far as I know the hawk doesn't crit. And I'm hitting for up to 4-5k with a sniper rifle. Every 1-2 seconds.

Regards,
SB

At what level?

I have a level 42 sniper rifle that does crazy damage with amazing add-ons that I can't use yet, so let's compare apples to oranges!

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I haven't played Borderlands since I got DAO, so not sure actually. But for my play style I wish I had put more points into sniper/pistol than Hawk. The amount of point investment for a multiple hit hawk that did good damage would detract from the potential of both sniper and pistol.

And with already having to pick and choose which pistol talents to go with the sniper talents, I'm always left wishing I hadn't invested any points in the Hawk tree.

The only time I've found the hawk marginally useful for my playstyle is the occasional boss I had to kite.

That said, I can also see playing things a different way and going full hawk to get some of those benefits, but as said, it just doesn't fit my playstyle.

BTW - if I remember right, I'm using a sniper weapon with a 2.0x or 3.0x crit damage modifier. Anything that isn't a mini-boss pretty much dies in one crit.

I should probably put in the disclaimer that I'm playing on PC, so getting crits (for me) is far easier than it would be on console.

Regards,
SB

 

[Scott_Arm]

For hawk I'd probably go with the spec line where it steals damage as health, or something.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

For hawk I'd probably go with the spec line where it steals damage as health, or something.

That was my thoughts also initially, but have found that other than bosses, the healing from the pistol line for each kill is more reliable and more frequent.

One of the problems I've had with using the Hawk for healing is that often it gets hung up on world geometry. And you don't get the health until the hawk gets back to you. This is a problem if you're low on health, NEED health, but the hawk is stuck on geometry that you are hiding behind to take cover so you don't die.

Regards,
SB

 

[NRP]

"crit" . . "kite" . . . what does it all mean?

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

CRIT refers to critical damage chance, essentially, an automatic kill shot.

The Hawk doesn't offer the ability to deliver a critical (automatic death) hit.

That's true, but I just went to level 26 and I spent that level making so my Bloodwing could hit two guys. He's still got 4 levels left to go before he maxs that skill meaning when I max him out he can attack FIVE guys with one "shot". Even assuming he's maxed out on the damage he can do right now (at 1200+) which I'm not sure of, that's 5x1200+ if you max him out.

Now, maybe that isn't so good if you're trying to target one single guy. But in fire fights, that's damn good. Especially considering you can get to 2x1200+ at level 26 where I am now and I also maxed out my sniper focus (5/5) as well, so I didn't put everything into the bird. IF I had, he'd already be hitting 5 targets each time I used him.

The other thing that needs to be mentioned is that the levels are ALL EQUAL. So it pays to go down "one line" rather than spread your skills around. Now that I'm level 26 and I need a crap load of exp to get to the next 'level', it makes little sense to buy the early pistol or sniper skills rather than the big time Bird skills.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

One other thing I want to ask... WHAT IS UP WITH THIS GAME?

What is up with some weapons being black? Some being blue? Some being green? When they are in your inventory? Some weapons look like they should be better because they're blue instead of the normal black, but when you compare them, the black weapons do more damage, have better accuracy and reload and even have more special skills. Do Green and Blue just mean like elemental and freakazoid or something? Without any regard to how good the weapon actually is?

I've got two sniper rifles, one is just a standard 'black' weapon but its got great modifiers on it and does about 100 more base damage, and I've got another green or blue one that does everything worse when you compare it but it does like 'special' damage and is worth about 3x the price of the other.

The only benefit is the more expensive green or blue one has 2.4x zoom rather than 1.5x zoom or something, and I've played with them both and the zoom isn't that big of a difference.

But WOW! The gun that has the better stats as far as I can tell (except for the worst zoom) is like worth 1500 and the other gun is worth 4500 or something.

I'm confused..... ??

 

[Silent_Buddha]

The value of a weapon is relative to it's level.

So a level 5 weapon with great stats for a level 5 weapon might be worth more than a level 10 weapon which has average stats for a level 10 weapon, but is overall better that the previous level 5 weapon.

Basically a weapon of a given level is worth significantly more if it provides the stats of a weapon a few levels higher.

Regards,
SB

 

[Tchock]

One other thing I want to ask... WHAT IS UP WITH THIS GAME?

What is up with some weapons being black? Some being blue? Some being green? When they are in your inventory? Some weapons look like they should be better because they're blue instead of the normal black, but when you compare them, the black weapons do more damage, have better accuracy and reload and even have more special skills. Do Green and Blue just mean like elemental and freakazoid or something? Without any regard to how good the weapon actually is?

I've got two sniper rifles, one is just a standard 'black' weapon but its got great modifiers on it and does about 100 more base damage, and I've got another green or blue one that does everything worse when you compare it but it does like 'special' damage and is worth about 3x the price of the other.

The only benefit is the more expensive green or blue one has 2.4x zoom rather than 1.5x zoom or something, and I've played with them both and the zoom isn't that big of a difference.

But WOW! The gun that has the better stats as far as I can tell (except for the worst zoom) is like worth 1500 and the other gun is worth 4500 or something.

I'm confused..... ??

No... seriously? Never played Diablo or even Hellgate: London before?

Weapon drops work with level and rarity. Rare items have special properties that you might OR might not need (eg Elemental damage/other nifty properties). But they might still be pretty useless!

I would stick with guns that have lower damage but give shock damage (shields, stun, invaluable). Normal damage is pretty pathetic overall unless you run-n-gun (I mostly try to snipe so that might be it)

 

[Silent_Buddha]

"crit" . . "kite" . . . what does it all mean?

Crit is critical hit. This isn't necessarily instant death, and isn't in Borderlands unless you do so much damage that it kills the creature. Usually a crit is up to 2x normal damage. Some skills in Borderlands will increase critical hit damage. And some weapons have increseased critical hit damage multipliers.

For Borderlands a critical hit is hitting a mob in a weak spot. For humanoids this is usually the head. For the ants it's the abdomen. For the doglike creatures it's usually the open "mouth."

Kiting refers to constantly moving and keeping a mob chasing you (so they don't get a chance to hit you, or only get the occasional chance) while doing damage to them. Most effective when combined with DoT (Damage over Time). But in Borderlands works equally well with just backing up and occasionally sidestepping when something charges/jumps at you.

Combine those two, and if your aim is good you can almost always score a critical hit which is massive damage.

For hunters, you can combine increased sniper rifle damage with increased critical hit damage from the pistol tree for some absolutely ridiculous crit hits. Get the double shot chance from the pistol tree for upclose combat and you can get some insane close combat pistol damage with revolvers. Unfortunately I think that maxes out at just 40% chance for a double shot.

Still, I've gotten a few exceptional double shot crits for over 10k damage on a single target. And I "think" my character is only in the low 30's in level.

The nice thing with the hawk is that you don't require a good weapon and it's sorta fire and forget. But still doesn't do much for my playstyle. I do so much damage with weapons that the hawk is just a drop in the bucket. Especially when you take into account the recast time.

That said, the Hawk isn't a bad choice. And fully upgraded (including the recast reducers from sniper and pistol tree) it could probably be pretty devastating. Just doesn't fit my playstyle.

Regards,
SB

 

[Billy Idol]

One other thing I want to ask... WHAT IS UP WITH THIS GAME?

What is up with some weapons being black? Some being blue? Some being green? When they are in your inventory? Some weapons look like they should be better because they're blue instead of the normal black, but when you compare them, the black weapons do more damage, have better accuracy and reload and even have more special skills. Do Green and Blue just mean like elemental and freakazoid or something? Without any regard to how good the weapon actually is?

I've got two sniper rifles, one is just a standard 'black' weapon but its got great modifiers on it and does about 100 more base damage, and I've got another green or blue one that does everything worse when you compare it but it does like 'special' damage and is worth about 3x the price of the other.

The only benefit is the more expensive green or blue one has 2.4x zoom rather than 1.5x zoom or something, and I've played with them both and the zoom isn't that big of a difference.

But WOW! The gun that has the better stats as far as I can tell (except for the worst zoom) is like worth 1500 and the other gun is worth 4500 or something.

I'm confused..... ??

the colors are indicating he rarity from white (standard) - green - blue - orange (very rare)...if I remember correctly

 

[Billy Idol]

lvl 19 Hunter...loving the game so far.

The only problem I have...technically the game is a mess (PS3 version). Despite framerate issues comparable to ME (which doesn't really borther me, as this is a slow paced game) I have additionally some weird sound stuttering, which starts to get annoying after 5 straight hours of gaming.

But, to be honest...it often seems that I have more luck than anything else...in a boss fight, I always go down, then by some super lucky critical hits with the sniper from the hip I regain health and somhow win ... as I said, I am loving this game.

One thing that is not optimal gameplay wise, my car always disapears when I am getting back from another region, forcing me to walk a lot.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

But, to be honest...it often seems that I have more luck than anything else...in a boss fight, I always go down, then by some super lucky critical hits with the sniper from the hip I regain health and somhow win ... as I said, I am loving this game.

That's "second wind". If you get killed, you have a short amount of time to kill an enemy before your sight fades and you effectively make a critical save. If you kill any enemy, you get up and continue fighting, fail and you are respawned at a save point.

Obviously in your boss fights, you nearly take the boss down before he takes you down, so those last few hits you make before you die are enough to kill him and you get back up with your second wind.

It's a good tactic if you go down just to try and kill the weakest enemy you can see, just to get a second wind and to continue fighting.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

No... seriously? Never played Diablo or even Hellgate: London before?

Weapon drops work with level and rarity. Rare items have special properties that you might OR might not need (eg Elemental damage/other nifty properties). But they might still be pretty useless!

I would stick with guns that have lower damage but give shock damage (shields, stun, invaluable). Normal damage is pretty pathetic overall unless you run-n-gun (I mostly try to snipe so that might be it)

Nope, never played those games.

So you are saying I should stick with the special green rifle that is worth 4x more than my "standard" rifle because it does corrosive damage, even if I don't know I'm going up against people with shields that the corrosive damage should be useful against? I should equip it and use it anyway?

Oh... And all this 'Boss' talk.. I guess I finally just got into contact with my first 'Boss', and Bloodwing tore him to shreds, attacked him twice before I could even move into position and he was dead before I put my crosshairs on him.

So... that's something else, apparently the multiple attack modifier on Bloodwing isn't necessarily different people. It's just multiple attacks. Right now he's at 2x, and he toasted that Boss before I could even get into the room.

Something else to think about when you're all downgrading the Bird.

(I have no doubt that as you go up in levels the usefullness of the Bird is diminished. But so far, approximating level 30, he's awesome. Maybe another 10 to 15 levels he won't be as useful as just normal weapons.)

 

[NRP]

@SB
Thanks for the info. I am really enjoying this game more than I expected to. Although MW2 is going to occupy my time for a while, I know I'll come back to Borderlands. All the stats/upgrades/characters are new to me, so I'm still trying to figure it all out. That's probably what I like best about this game - the basic gameplay is engaging enough that I don't mind the learning curve.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

BTW.. just to update, my Hawk doesn't do 1200+ damage, it does 1900+ damage.

I just finished probably the first "level" where I fought the first "Boss" (where you go to get the key) and after coming out you get attack by a bunch of guys, and my Hawk was tearing them to pieces at 1900+ damage per attack and he's at 2 attacks per throw.

So, I don't know if the damage he deals goes up? Because I haven't leveled up since I went into the mines (which is a bad place to have your special skill be a long range killing Hawk, btw.), but I was just watching him tear apart those guys and he was hitting for over 1900 damage each time he hit them.

Thats pretty nuts. He's pretty much a "single shot kill" every single time. Plus he'll hit more than one target, and I'm telling you he's hit at least THREE and I think FOUR (but not 100% positive on that), as it is and he's only supposed to hit 2.

So I don't know if the targets are too weak he tears them apart so quickly they dont count as kills so he can still go kill two other people?? But my Hawk is only supposed to attack 2 targets and he's killed THREE multiple times and I'm pretty sure he's hit FOUR a couple of times.

Maybe it has something to do with the level of the targets? I think they were all midgets that he was destroying.

 

[Billy Idol]

That's "second wind". If you get killed, you have a short amount of time to kill an enemy before your sight fades and you effectively make a critical save. If you kill any enemy, you get up and continue fighting, fail and you are respawned at a save point.

Obviously in your boss fights, you nearly take the boss down before he takes you down, so those last few hits you make before you die are enough to kill him and you get back up with your second wind.

It's a good tactic if you go down just to try and kill the weakest enemy you can see, just to get a second wind and to continue fighting.

Yep, I know that it is second wind and I know how this works. What surprises me was the fact that it often works for me in last minute and that I survived a lot of the boss fights due to the fact that I found somewhere an easy kill ... great game mechanic.

I read somewhere that they are planing to patch the brutal sound stuttering issues (PS3). What I really wonder is how they passed QA with this game
This game has serious streaming issues. Sometimes when I am hitting a critical, the screen freezes (!) for 1 second (at the first moment I thought my PS3 wents down) but then continues with the foe splattered around.
Texture streaming is a joke...needs years to load them, and if you turn away and then look at stuff again...it sometimes needs again time to stream the high res textures
My problem is that I think the game is one of the best this year and that I cannot stop playing it, despite the technical issues: approaching lvl 25 with my hunter and did not get bored one time!

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Yep, I know that it is second wind and I know how this works. What surprises me was the fact that it often works for me in last minute and that I survived a lot of the boss fights due to the fact that I found somewhere an easy kill ... great game mechanic.

You can't really die in this game anyway, so I quite like it as a game mechanic that allows you to keep playing without having to respawn and travel back to the same point or reload a save. It gives a nice last second panic as you try to kill a cheap target.

I read somewhere that they are planing to patch the brutal sound stuttering issues (PS3). What I really wonder is how they passed QA with this game
This game has serious streaming issues. Sometimes when I am hitting a critical, the screen freezes (!) for 1 second (at the first moment I thought my PS3 wents down) but then continues with the foe splattered around.
Texture streaming is a joke...needs years to load them, and if you turn away and then look at stuff again...it sometimes needs again time to stream the high res textures
My problem is that I think the game is one of the best this year and that I cannot stop playing it, despite the technical issues: approaching lvl 25 with my hunter and did not get bored one time!

TBH I didn't see any of those problems because I played it on the PC at 1920x1080 (hence my only commenting on gameplay). It was very fun and addictive, quite atmospheric. It felt like an open, desert world, like you were driving around the Arizona badlands or something. The constant drive for better weapons and higher levels to make you stronger is a compelling gameplay mechanic as you follow the main storyline.

And they did a quality job of making it play well on the PC too - no problems with mouse controls or vehicle steering as you often get for games designed primarily with a control pad in mind.

It may not have the hype and franchise of (say) Batman Arkham Asylum, but I think it's one of the best games of the year.

 

[Billy Idol]

TBH I didn't see any of those problems because I played it on the PC at 1920x1080 (hence my only commenting on gameplay). It was very fun and addictive, quite atmospheric. It felt like an open, desert world, like you were driving around the Arizona badlands or something. The constant drive for better weapons and higher levels to make you stronger is a compelling gameplay mechanic as you follow the main storyline.

And they did a quality job of making it play well on the PC too - no problems with mouse controls or vehicle steering as you often get for games designed primarily with a control pad in mind.

It may not have the hype and franchise of (say) Batman Arkham Asylum, but I think it's one of the best games of the year.

Ha...playing PC is like cheating: paying less money for the game, getting better graphics+performance and better controls...I don't usually take the easy road (just kidding, but I am definitely starting to look jealous to the PC gaming crowd, thinking about becoming a member myself!)

 

[NRP]

Although I'm not very far into the game (lvl 15 Berserker), I haven't noticed any of those issues on the 360 version.