Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[Xenus]

It still has ps1 support though and the ps4 might have ps2 support so it needs some kind of drive to run those unless you really think people are willing to pay for the DD of games they already own just to play them on the new console.

 

[corduroygt]

100M + units of higher priced console software sales also have retail hands in it , platform holders hands in it , distrubtion , packaging costs also involved.

Without those retailers, how are you going to sell your consoles in the first place? Many people don't order online you know. Also despite all those hands, they still make more money. Not to mention it's the US, which is only 40% of the market.

 

[eastmen]

Without those retailers, how are you going to sell your consoles in the first place? Many people don't order online you know. Also despite all those hands, they still make more money.

Fun fact. My uncle bought an xbox 360 premium on launch day from shoprite. http://www.shoprite.com/ he was buying lobsters for dinner and he saw it there and remembered me talking about how hard it was to find them.

All you need to do is put good margins for the hardware. Personaly I think big box stores would love it. They can stock say an xbox next at $400 with $50 of that going to them. Then they cn stock controllers in which they get a large margin of the price (I believe gamestop gets $15 per controller they sell) they can sell rock band bundles , they can sell head sets , they can even sell live cards. All of these have better margins and it allows them to reduce the foot print devoted to these items. More to the point , they don't have to worry about having a ton of stock that doesn't sell. Instead of having to devote space to games they can devote them to game cards which can be thrown out if they stop selling and you can fit dozens of them in the space of a sngle game case

 

[corduroygt]

Fun fact. My uncle bought an xbox 360 premium on launch day from shoprite. http://www.shoprite.com/ he was buying lobsters for dinner and he saw it there and remembered me talking about how hard it was to find them.

A game has $10 margin on it if not more, and you can fit 50 games in the same shelf space of a single console, so that's not going to fly. Software is something that sells continually, not something where you buy once and never buy again.

Cards could be sold and they don't take up much space, but buying a code isn't as popular as buying the physical product.

 

[eastmen]

A game has $10 margin on it if not more, and you can fit 50 games in the same shelf space of a single console, so that's not going to fly. Software is something that sells continually, not something where you buy once and never buy again.

Cards could be sold and they don't take up much space, but buying a code isn't as popular as buying the physical product.

Depends on the size of the console. retailers stocked the psp go dispite it being a flop. The console would be the draw to go to the store , then the store would try and sell the cards and other acessorys.

Inventory would be much easier to control than it is now. A game may have a $10 margin on it , but what do you do when the game is a flop and you have 30 copies sitting there not being sold. However another game is a huge hit and you sold out of your copies and you could have stocked more if not for the dud game you had. With game cards since they take up so little room you wont have that problem anymore .

Also buying a code isn't popular because no one needs to use it currently. But if it was the only way to buy games then it would be just as popular as buying discs are now.

I can tell that you have some vested intrest in discs and being able to sell your stuff. But entertainment is moving away from that. There is no use fighting it , you can bet sony , ms and nintendo all want to make this move and will do s as soon as they think it will work.

 

[corduroygt]

Depends on the size of the console. retailers stocked the psp go dispite it being a flop.

They actually refused to stock the psp go in some countries.

Would you mind telling me how the margins on the cards will be? Currently you can get most games between 50-55 online if not lower, while store price is 60+tax. If cards are more expensive at retail compared to simply buying online, they won't sell. If cards are not more expensive, then it means stores are getting it cheaper, so that's money coming out of the publisher.

Right now the system works for disc based games because you can have it right away instead of waiting for it to be shipped, but there is no such issues with cards and people will just buy them online, I mean why should I go to a store if online is cheaper and more convenient and faster?

Also, thanks for worrying about me, but I'm not concerned. If I'm unable to sell/trade games anymore, I simply will stop buying until they're <$20, and I'm definitely not in the minority as you can see from Steam users.
I can tell someone hasn't recovered from Blu-ray winning the HD media war and would give anything to not have blu-ray on the next non-sony console.

 

[eastmen]

They actually refused to stock the psp go in some countries.

Would you mind telling me how the margins on the cards will be? Currently you can get most games between 50-55 online if not lower, while store price is 60+tax. If cards are more expensive at retail compared to simply buying online, they won't sell. If cards are not more expensive, then it means stores are getting it cheaper, so that's money coming out of the publisher.

Right now the system works for disc based games because you can have it right away instead of waiting for it to be shipped, but there is no such issues with cards and people will just buy them online, I mean why should I go to a store if online is cheaper and more convenient and faster?

Also, thanks for worrying about me, but I'm not concerned. If I'm unable to sell/trade games anymore, I simply will stop buying until they're <$20, and I'm definitely not in the minority as you can see from Steam users.
I can tell someone hasn't recovered from Blu-ray winning the HD media war and would give anything to not have blu-ray on the next non-sony console.

Have you ever look at xbox points ? Thats how it is. People buy cards because they don't want to use credit cards online , or credit cards at all. You also can't use checks which people wnat to use. Or just plain old cash.

I also don't know why you keep talking about steam. We really don't know how the npd gathered that information. They track physical copies at retail and even then they don't account for a 100% of the retailers. So its flawed to continue bringing it up as proof of anything .

The developers , publishers and platform owners want this. The money saved from switching to dd will more than make up for any sales slippage.

 

[corduroygt]

The developers , publishers and platform owners want this. The money saved from switching to dd will more than make up for any sales slippage.

You have no proof of this, while trying to discredit NPD, which is a credible organization, at least compared to forum posters here, so no, you are absolutely wrong.

If they thought they could make more money out of this, they'd release 360 games through XBL since they're only 6GB max for the most part, which is not that much. The fact that they won't even release it as download alongside the DVD version speaks volumes.

 

[eastmen]

You have no proof of this, while trying to discredit NPD, which is a credible organization, at least compared to forum posters here, so no, you are absolutely wrong.

If they thought they could make more money out of this, they'd release 360 games through XBL since they're only 6GB max for the most part, which is not that much. The fact that they won't even release it as download alongside the DVD version speaks volumes.

Yes 6 gigs is not much with 64 megs of free space...oh wait its impossible.
Yes 6 gigs is not much with 256megs of free space... oh wait its impossible.
Yes 6 gigs is not much with 512 megs of free space... oh wait its impossible.
Yes 6 gigs isnot much with 4 gigs of free space.... oh wait its impossible.
Yes 6 gigs is not much with 12 gigs of free space...oh wait its half the free space

The vast majority 360s sold make it impossible for them to make money on releasing 6 gig video games through DD and the first verisons that do (60 gig unit) would allow for less than 9 games to be installed at once and thats not counting dlc , save games , arcade games and other things.

The current xbox 360 is not set up for DD of large games. A console designed around DD would easily allow it factoring in a 2012 release date. Consumers can buy 1TB hardrives for as low as $60 each . 2TB hardrives are at $115 . MS/Sony/Nintendo needing to buy millions of them would get much better deals and we are talking about a 2012 pricing vs 2010 pricing. IF we factor in the average game at 20 gigs. 1TB hardrive would hold 50 games and 2TB 100 and 3TB 150. If you want to say that the average next gen game will be 50 gigs. You can still fit 20/40/60 full games on the hardrive.

Comparing the xbox 360 to what a next gen system can be makes no sense at all when discusing DD as the xbox 360 is 5 years old and was not designed with in mind.


Consumer habits point them to physical mediums. Cds still exist and that is one of the first to go Digital but remember cassettes existed along side cds well into the 90s. At some point in the future Cds will no longer be sold. If you look at the npd numbers you will see that DD are climbing up and in the next couple of years the majority of pc gamers will be buying thier games through DD .

For MS/Sony whoever DD makes more sense than retail. Look at the costs you get rid of. 1) Retailer cut. You say they take 1/6th of the msrp. You get rid of te cost of the dvd/bluray. You get rid of the packaging , the manual printing , the shipping. You get rid of having to manage inventory loosing sales when stores run out of copies. You get rid of having to take back unsold copies from retailers. You get rid of retail copies having warrenty issues. You get rid of the used market. You get rid of having to buy shelf space.

What costs do you replace it with ? Bandwidth ? Thats dirt cheap. Game cards ? Those are dirt cheap and you can ship thousands of them for the cost of a few physical copies of a game.

 

[corduroygt]

Yes 6 gigs is not much with 64 megs of free space...oh wait its impossible.
Yes 6 gigs is not much with 256megs of free space... oh wait its impossible.
Yes 6 gigs is not much with 512 megs of free space... oh wait its impossible.
Yes 6 gigs isnot much with 4 gigs of free space.... oh wait its impossible.
Yes 6 gigs is not much with 12 gigs of free space...oh wait its half the free space
The vast majority 360s sold make it impossible for them to make money on releasing 6 gig video games through DD and the first verisons that do (60 gig unit) would allow for less than 9 games to be installed at once and thats not counting dlc , save games , arcade games and other things.

They already rent/sell HD movies that take as much space, so what's the problem here? The 360's without large hard drives can still keep buying the DVD version like they always have, so why not also offer the games through download on release date alongside the DVD version? Like you said the only costs are bandwidth, and that's per game sold, so even if a handful of people buy the DD version, it'll make money since the stock isn't sitting at a warehouse.

Why aren't they doing this now? Is MS dumb, because I seriously doubt that. They must know something that you don't, and I bet it's called (lack of) customer demand for DD.

the majority of pc gamers will be buying thier games through DD .

The majority of pc gamers have been "obtaining" their games through DD for years, and that's not going to change. It's not the same with consoles.

What costs do you replace it with ? Bandwidth ? Thats dirt cheap. Game cards ? Those are dirt cheap and you can ship thousands of them for the cost of a few physical copies of a game.

Even if your costs are down, when your sales revenue goes down 70%, you still lose money.

 

[eastmen]

They already rent/sell HD movies that take as much space, so what's the problem here? The 360's without large hard drives can still keep buying the DVD version like they always have, so why not also offer the games through download on release date alongside the DVD version? Like you said the only costs are bandwidth, and that's per game sold, so even if a handful of people buy the DD version, it'll make money since the stock isn't sitting at a warehouse.

Ms has been constantly upgrading the size of xbox live arcade games and they do sell a few xbox live original titles.

Once again the xbox 360 was not designed with DD of full games in mind

Why aren't they doing this now? Is MS dumb, because I seriously doubt that. They must know something that you don't, and I bet it's called (lack of) customer demand for DD.

Once again the console was not designed with DD in mind. I'm not sure how they are supposed to gage consumer demand for DD when the majority of thier userbase can not directly take advantage of DD

Do you want me to make a blanket statment like you. I guess that MS has only released two packs of arcade games on physical discs then there is a lack of customer demand for phyiscal distrubution.

See I can make blanket statements also.

The majority of pc gamers have been "obtaining" their games through DD for years, and that's not going to change. It's not the same with consoles.

So now your calling the NPD liars? Did you not just insult me about my questioning thier data but its okay for you to question it and call it wrong. If they are saying in 2009 that 23.5m physical units of pc games were sold vs 21.3m were DD then the majority of pc gamers use physical units and not DD dispite what you just claimed.

Even if your costs are down, when your sales revenue goes down 70%, you still lose money.

When you make up BS statstics it makes people not want ot listen to you.

Why would your sale revenues go down ? Even with your NPD numbers your not getting a 70% decline in sale revenue.

The thing with consoles is each gen is a way to start over and while we are talking about 2012 as the launch of hte console you have to understand that those buying a console in holiday 2012 and spending $400 will have fast intenet speeds and will be connected to the internet. In 2013 as the cost of the consoles come down more people will buy and the majority of those will continue to connect to the internet. By the time you get to those unwilling to connect to the internet at all it will be close to the middle of this decade and more and more changes to the internet and its speeds will happen. And like i've already spoken about you can have usb 3.0 kiosks for those who don't want to connect.

When talking about DD all you want to say is it wont happen who ever releases it will loose all costumers , the only way to sell DD is to sell it during huge sales , people will buy less because there is no used market.

You seem to be unwilling to look at it from the other side and consider the great possiblitys we could see from a DD only console.


Its very easy to see the future with the same things w have today. Its very easy to say hey the xbox next and ps4 will come with faster bluray drives and thats great cause its the way its been and we like it that way. But then we are still stuck with slow as heck optical drives. With even 12x bluray drives we will have noisy drives that havehorrible seek rates and low transfer speeds vs DD on hard discs. You might loose used sales but you will also possibly gain a steam like system where older titles are able to go on great sales where 6 months after a game launchign you can get good deals that are better than current used deals.

You seem to think that the consumer wont change. But we saw attitude like that earlier this gen by sony. They felt that the consumer would choose them a third time and pay any price. We saw that wasn't true and sony when from two gens of dominating the industry strait out by large margins by being in third place. We saw people thinking that nintendo's market share would continue to slip for a third strait gen , instead they tookthe market by storm by thinking outside the box and are now far and away the market leader. We saw the same thinking with the psp that it would be a sucess because it had the better graphics and playstation name.But the ds with a diffrent control scheme is what took the market.

Perhaps next gen the digital download only console will be the market changer and take the market by storm. Mabye it wont be , mabye no one will do it till the gen after that (if there is one).

but its silly to dismiss something that is obviously growing in the music industry , the movie industry and now even the book industry along with it getting close to 50% of the pc market and then turn around and say it wont work in the console industry.

 

[corduroygt]

Once again the xbox 360 was not designed with DD of full games in mind

Nice excuse, you can get 250GB drives and wifi with the new xboxes so I don't see how it'd be designed with full DD games in mind...PS3 also has wifi and upgradable HDD, so it's just as suitable for DD games as the 360.

Once again the console was not designed with DD in mind. I'm not sure how they are supposed to gage consumer demand for DD when the majority of thier userbase can not directly take advantage of DD

Excuses...excuses...it doesn't cost them anything to also release the game via DD, and let the userbase that has big drives buy them, why aren't they doing this?

So now your calling the NPD liars? Did you not just insult me about my questioning thier data but its okay for you to question it and call it wrong. If they are saying in 2009 that 23.5m physical units of pc games were sold vs 21.3m were DD then the majority of pc gamers use physical units and not DD dispite what you just claimed.

Oh wow...did you notice I put "obtained" in quotes? What do you think I meant there? I meant, for every PC game sale, there are 100 pirated copies downloaded, so that's why the PC crowd is used to "downloading" games.

Why would your sale revenues go down ? Even with your NPD numbers your not getting a 70% decline in sale revenue.

Ok, it'd be a 64% decline in revenue according to NPD numbers, isn't that significant? And that's for the PC, people buy PC's to get on the internet in the first place, so it's as good as it can be at any platform, any consoles would do worse

And like i've already spoken about you can have usb 3.0 kiosks for those who don't want to connect.

Kiosks are a horrible idea compared to just adding an optical drive which would not cost more than $20 by next gen. 3.5" Hard drives aren't designed to be portable and they fail far more often than 2.5" drives when they're moved around by the way.

With even 12x bluray drives we will have noisy drives that have horrible seek rates and low transfer speeds vs DD on hard discs.

That's why you have installs, built in flash for caching in the console, etc. A 6x Blu-ray is 27MB/sec, already challenging the 2.5" drives, and no, there won't be 3.5" hard drives next gen, it'll stay 2.5" for power/space/portability/reliability reasons. 6X Blu-ray would be very quiet, and with caching to flash, games would run just fine. 6x is enough to keep it quiet and fast enough.

You seem to think that the consumer wont change
but its silly to dismiss something that is obviously growing in the music industry

We've seen that the consumer cares about spending less with the wii, and DD with no resale will not be successful.

Music industry had more than a decade, file sizes are small enough to be not an issue with connections, and the biggest advantage is to be able to buy individual tracks for cheap instead of full albums, and yet, they're still only half of the market...DD movie and book industry is a lot less successful.

It's crazy to think DD-only games will be successful. The best strategy would be to have an optical drive as well as a disc drive, especially since the cost of the optical drive is not much.

 

[Squilliam]

I think we're going about this the wrong way. I don't think digital distribution will start with the first world and spread outwards. I think its going to start with developing countries who have never gotten used to physical media and spread to the western world. Its the only real way for a console maker/publisher to price discriminate. They can offer kiosks with content which is 1/4 the local price that way the publishers and content makers get people used to paying for content.

So with Microsofts removeable HDD I wouldn't be surprised given the portability of it if they were to offer kiosks for distribution directly onto the HDD. They could even go as far as to offer a cut price SKU without an optical drive. Who would try to export something like that back into the western world where its useless?

There are a lot of places where people can get pirated content. Its not much of a stretch if they were to subsidise the actual kiosks and let people buy legitimate games in the same places that they can also buy pirated content.

 

[corduroygt]

There are a lot of places where people can get pirated content. Its not much of a stretch if they were to subsidise the actual kiosks and let people buy legitimate games in the same places that they can also buy pirated content.

Why would they pay if they could get the same content for free?

 

[eastmen]

Nice excuse, you can get 250GB drives and wifi with the new xboxes so I don't see how it'd be designed with full DD games in mind...PS3 also has wifi and upgradable HDD, so it's just as suitable for DD games as the 360.

Because the xbox came out in holiday 2005 and the 250 gig drives came out 3 months ago. Sony had a vested interest in bluray and mandated every game no matter its size being published on bluray disc. You can search for threads on it. They did this to help them lanch a new movie format during a format war.

Excuses...excuses...it doesn't cost them anything to also release the game via DD, and let the userbase that has big drives buy them, why aren't they doing this?

They release all xbox arcade games and xbox originals as DD only. They have been expanding DD content through out the generation.

Oh wow...did you notice I put "obtained" in quotes? What do you think I meant there? I meant, for every PC game sale, there are 100 pirated copies downloaded, so that's why the PC crowd is used to "downloading" games.

Got any figures to back up those numbers ?

Ok, it'd be a 64% decline in revenue according to NPD numbers, isn't that significant? And that's for the PC, people buy PC's to get on the internet in the first place, so it's as good as it can be at any platform, any consoles would do worse

It doesn't have to be a 64% decline ad unlike on the pc , consoles don't have as rampet piracy issues.

Kiosks are a horrible idea compared to just adding an optical drive which would not cost more than $20 by next gen. 3.5" Hard drives aren't designed to be portable and they fail far more often than 2.5" drives when they're moved around by the way.

Do you have data backing up your claim that 3.5 inch drives fail more than 2.5 drives.

Also its called a flash drive... you know they are the size of your thumb and currently cost $8 for 8 gigs. Bring your flash drive to a kiosk and load your newly purchased game to it. Put it into your xbox next and start playing while the game transfers to your console.

That's why you have installs, built in flash for caching in the console, etc. A 6x Blu-ray is 27MB/sec, already challenging the 2.5" drives, and no, there won't be 3.5" hard drives next gen, it'll stay 2.5" for power/space/portability/reliability reasons. 6X Blu-ray would be very quiet, and with caching to flash, games would run just fine. 6x is enough to keep it quiet and fast enough.

I like how you make asumptions.

Get rid of the bluray drive and put in a 3.5inch drive in its place. Now instead of a 2.5inch drive and 5.25inch drive you have a single 3.5inch drive.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/notebook-hard-drive-750gb-640gb,2637-8.html

Minimum speed of a 5,400rpm 2.5inch drive is 45MB/s min maxing at 95.1MB/s

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/2tb-hard-drive-constellation,2630-6.html

a 3.5inch drive will be 71/141

Even with a 6x bluray drive (which is loud thats the speed of my LG drive and when i rip a bluray its as bad as my dvd burner)

Now assuming the bluray drive will be capable of maintaining that 27MB/s through out the whole disc , remind me how long it would take to install 50 gigs ? A half an hour I'd imagine.

We've seen that the consumer cares about spending less with the wii, and DD with no resale will not be successful.

I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion. The 360 has been outselling the wii in the states dispite games and the hardware being more expensive. Even still the wii was on par with past console launch prices. The xbox/ps2 launched at $300 and the gamecube launched at $250 which was the launch price of the wii.

Music industry had more than a decade, file sizes are small enough to be not an issue with connections, and the biggest advantage is to be able to buy individual tracks for cheap instead of full albums, and yet, they're still only half of the market...DD movie and book industry is a lot less successful.
It's crazy to think DD-only games will be successful. The best strategy would be to have an optical drive as well as a disc drive, especially since the cost of the optical drive is not much.

Cds are taking a long time because cds were so established by the time you mp3 players came out. I think you take forgranted what it was like for most of the mp3 players life.

The first mp3 players were either very large with so so storage (10 gigs or so) or very small with less than 128 megs of storage. They worked in very few cars and on very few home thearter systems. It was vastly diffrent than it is now where people are rushing in to have mp3 support in cars with aux jacks built into the front of the reciever or even ipod jacks , or for home thearters to come with ipod docks or even alarm clocks to have them.

And remember mp3s came about in the 56k era. I used to be happy downloadinga mp3 at 10kb/s . A 4MB file .





Now let me put forth a plan in which I think DD can succeed in the console market.

1) No physical medium. The problem with introducing a physical medium is that a used market will spring up around it. The used market will then allow the phsyical medium to have a price advantage on the DD.

2) Large 3.5 inch drive. Today i bought a 1TB drive for $80 but I also saw a 2TB drive for $110. I picked the 1TB as its faster in benchmarks. I believe a 2012 console can launch with at least 2TB of storage. I would think a hybrid drive would be best. 2TB 7,200rpm drive with 64megs of cache and then a good 8-16 gigs of flash to act as an ssd for preloading

3)USB 3.0 portable drives for Kiosks. Testing from diffrent sites is showing current usb implementations maxing at 170MB/s thas more than fast enough for transfering games.

4)Kiosks. Best buys and other stores already have kiosks for game demos. MS can simply add the purchase system to it. Put a few 3TB drives in there. 3TBs can hold 60 games at 50 gigs each , 120 games at 25 gigs and 200 at 15 gigs. Stores would stock them as they can sell game cards. Not only that but you can pull a redbox and put these kiosks at food stores and in malls.

 

[eastmen]

Why would they pay if they could get the same content for free?

in other countrys you have to pay for pirated materials most of the time.

Or next gen they can get lucky and go 4 years with no piracy like sony was able to do this year.

 

[corduroygt]

Cry as you might, MS will be paying license fees to the Blu-ray Disc Association next gen, bank on it. What you're saying is like saying there will be no gasoline powered cars in 5 years.

3.5" drives will not return to consoles, since they're even more of a fixed cost than 2.5" drives. 2.5" drives are designed to be used in laptops and are more tolerant of moving around. USB flash write speeds in your beloved fictional kiosks are 5MB/s max, even my X25-M won't achieve 170MB/s write and that costs more than a console by itself.

Also, 360 has only passed the wii for a few months in the States, and most of these months it was within $50 of the Wii, or a new slim design was introduced. Why don't we go back to 2006-2008 and see if the 360 outsold the Wii, right? Consumers care about low prices and DD isn't good for that so far.

www.bing.com
Uses for a few days , use bing maps and be happy.

I know you're an MS fan to the point of suggesting someone to use bing instead of google (LOL) and would buy anything they'd make, but it'll be suicide for them to go DD only while Sony/Nintendo has both DD and Disc based. The majority of the market wants games on disc, and won't even consider the next xbox if it's DD only. Luckily, you fail at predictiing what MS will do:

MS will have a big e3. I expect tthem to really push the xbox live intergration with the phone.

LOL

 

[eastmen]

Cry as you might, MS will be paying license fees to the Blu-ray Disc Association next gen, bank on it. What you're saying is like saying there will be no gasoline powered cars in 5 years.

No its really not. Because there are already millions of cars that use gasoline and electricty still isn't capable of replacing gas for all but the smallest commutes (20-30 miles it seems with the volt)

3.5" drives will not return to consoles, since they're even more of a fixed cost than 2.5" drives. 2.5" drives are designed to be used in laptops and are more tolerant of moving around. USB flash write speeds in your beloved fictional kiosks are 5MB/s max, even my X25-M won't achieve 170MB/s write and that costs more than a console by itself.

I'm sorry I wasn't aware that you carry your console to and from work , to and from school every day that the hardrive needed to have so much shock absorption and protection. Aside from that 3.5 inch drives can take quite a licking.
If your usb drive has a 5MB/s write seed then you got ripped off evn drives in 2005 were faster

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/data-transfer-run,1037-10.html

19-25MB/s Right up there with your super fast 6x blray drive.

Remember , usb specs are as follows

USB 1.0 LD = .19MB/s
USB 1.0 HD = 1.5MB/s
USB 2.0 = 60MB/s
USB 3.0 = 560MB/s

each of these have thier own over head so you will never truely get the maximum speed from them. However flash drives companys have been targeting larger capacitys at lower costs. Flash drives can hit into the 40MB/s range for reading and writing which gets very close to the peak of USB 2.0 . With USB 3.0 and larger capacity drives you will see transfer rates go up also. I don't think it will be the flash drives problem to keep up , it will be the physical hardrives problem keeping up.

Remember MS can sell these flash drives for profit and they can create a 32gig flash drive with fast write speeds. It just takes using more nand to vs larger nand.

Also, 360 has only passed the wii for a few months in the States, and most of these months it was within $50 of the Wii, or a new slim design was introduced. Why don't we go back to 2006-2008 and see if the 360 outsold the Wii, right? Consumers care about low prices and DD isn't good for that so far.

Your flip floping all around . The wii cost the same as consoles of the past. It was on par for consoles of lst generation and was only $50 less than an xbox 360. People like cheap stuff then why didn't the dreamcast at $150 beat the $300 ps2 in the states ? If people like cheap stuff then why did gamecube not outsell the ps2 last gen.

Its not as simple as people like cheap stuff. You said before that people only buy dd on sale. So that means hardware can be priced the same as competitors hardware but then the games will be cheaper.So doesn't that make DD cheaper ?


I

know you're an MS fan to the point of suggesting someone to use bing instead of google (LOL) and would buy anything they'd make, but it'll be suicide for them to go DD only while Sony/Nintendo has both DD and Disc based. The majority of the market wants games on disc, and won't even consider the next xbox if it's DD only. Luckily, you fail at predictiing what MS will do:

Bing maps are much better than Google maps and in fact google has been trying to keep up. I sugest you actually use both google and bing before laughing.

The majority of the market wants the best gaming experiance they can get. If xbox goes DD then people will follow them. After all sony released a $600 console with shoddy game support a year late with a very slow bluray drive and people still bought ps3s.

LOL

Cute , however ms has pushed live intergration with the phone. I was just incorrect about what event.

I'm done dicussing anything with you as you turn around and make petty insults because thats the only way you can win your arguement. I'm now placing you on my ignore list and will not respond to you . I do not want to fill up the threads with bickering .

 

[corduroygt]

Bing maps are much better than Google maps and in fact google has been trying to keep up. I sugest you actually use both google and bing before laughing.

I suggest you go to alexa and see the difference yourself...nobody cares about bing.

I'm now placing you on my ignore list and will not respond to you . I do not want to fill up the threads with bickering .

Thank goodness, finally! After reading your posts in this thread I'm glad you've ignored me...

 

[Squilliam]

Why would they pay if they could get the same content for free?

Why do people in the U.S.A. pay when they could get the same content for free? Its pretty obvious.

Cry as you might, MS will be paying license fees to the Blu-ray Disc Association next gen, bank on it.

Why would anyone cry about that? Besides there are always short-cuts. The Wii plays DVD, but not movies, and yet im betting they hardly pay any or perhaps they don't pay anything to the DVD association.

If paying fees REALLY gets them down theres always HD-DVD or the proprietary Chinese format.