Dev teams getting crushed under their own weight?

[nelg]

Deano had a interesting post in his blog. Which brings up the challenges in making games today. Do others feel the same way? What size team would you like to work with? Is specialization a hindrance? Is burnout going to become a trend?

Big mainstream games at the moment aren’t fun to work on… We are so stuck doing the non important stuff (1000 facial mocaps and shaders on 10 processors with actors and cameramen straight out of hollywood…) that the actual process of making the important bit (the gameplay) has becomes nasty…

It sucks, its no fun and given how much work everybody (code, art, design, qa and production) has to do to make a game, having it being no fun, really isn’t good. I’m not sure every big game development isn’t fun but I’ve never seen one (and I’ve worked on several). <snip>

 

[j^aws]

..and shaders on 10 processors...

*scratches head*

 

[Shifty Geezer]

1000 facial mocaps and shaders on 10 processors

That'll be Cell and graphics. Of course, PPE + 7 SPE + GPU = 9 processors. What's the tenth processor? Must be PhysX PPU!

Regards Deano's comments, Indie seems the only real path, but making a living from that...I dunno. Perhaps it's a case of a keeping a normal, sensible job and playing with you're own creations in your spare time.

I've an idea for a game I've had for over a decade, and I think this year I might sit down and write it and release it as a downloadable game without the hassles and costs of distribution. PC development gives access to a wide variety of game libraries and tools so you don't have to write yet another 3D engine and worry how it's all drawn when you're more concerned with getting your game content in and being fun. That recent Geomoetry Wars clone was written in BlitxMAX and was impressively fast IMO for a high-level language. Blitz was very good on Amiga and produced several games like Skidmarks. The chance to use simple languages and have fun designing and creating games is there, just not mainstream. Or you write for mobile phones which are small enough that you don't need huge teams, but that has agro producing code that works on all phones.

Or even just write webgames. I worked with a friend on this http://www.smith425.f2s.com/Squish.html. It'll feature on my software site when I get it up and running. I guess Deano's job consumes all his time, but one where you get breaks frees you to just play and remember what you liked about the idea of games in the first place.

 

[MfA]

Maybe like the movie business they need some unions so they can at least work some reasonable hours

 

[j^aws]

I didn't know Archi4oz left game development. He regularly posted here. From Deano's blog,

Yeah, the direction the industry was going really turned me off. Granted I do miss it, but if/when I do go back I’m more likely to try to get involved w/handhelds. It’s one of the few places that still offer that sense of a small, tight team where you have a lot more involvment (and can see more of the results of your work). Besides, the DS really tickles my fancy…

I think anyone working in any technical disciplines go through this stage at some point. It's inevitable success leads to bigger teams and more of a managerial role. You eventually lose sight of the shop floor...

I suggest taking a year off to Deano!

Re 10 pocessors:

1 PPE + 7 SPUs + new SPU! + RSX = 10!

 

[cloudscapes]

Maybe like the movie business they need some unions so they can at least work some reasonable hours

hear hear! it's a necessity, in fact :|

 

[Inane_Dork]

*scratches head*

Maybe he rounded the number. You know, he was ranting a bit more than he was being exact.

 

[Sct I/On]

I worked with a friend on this http://www.smith425.f2s.com/Squish.html

Loads o' fun this one

Thanks.

 

[OtakingGX]

To think that five years ago this was the industry that I was going to school to get into! Now I'm two months from graduating with a degree in engineering (mechanical, not electrical).

I've still got wild game ideas rolling around in the back of my head. The thought actually crossed my mind when I heard about the Rev dev kit cost to buy one to tool around with (once I have a job) and maybe even integrate it into my field (the remote would be awesome for 3D modeling and visualization).

I know a kid who is still in high school who wants to go to school for game design. His parents asked me if I knew anything about the school and I said I didn't, but was skeptical of learning such a specialized trade in college. Even if you do want to create games, I still think a bachelor's in another field would be valuable, then augment that with some programming or artistic skills.

 

[j^aws]

Maybe he rounded the number. You know, he was ranting a bit more than he was being exact.

Yeah, I did think that and it's valid. But in a rant, you can also get a Freudian Slip!

 

[Bobbler]

Maybe hes talking about all those SPEs inside the RSX?

 

[darkblu]

Maybe like the movie business they need some unions so they can at least work some reasonable hours

Marco, that's not funny at all.

 

[Nesh]

Deano had a interesting post in his blog. Which brings up the challenges in making games today. Do others feel the same way? What size team would you like to work with? Is specialization a hindrance? Is burnout going to become a trend?

Nintendo does have a point.Its true that the gaming industry is reaching a dead end.

Game development cost raises at extreme heights, and games are still priced almost the same all these years.

As technology in graphics evolves and games become more complex more employees, more knowledge, more educational fields, more time, and generally bigger costs are needed than previously to develp a good game.Profts are being compressed, and price elasticity of games seems high, so raising the price of games doesnt sound like a good strategy to cover the increase of costs.

I believe that the gaming industry will reach to a point where developers wont see graphical evolution as a good thing to them as a business and they will try to find other lower cost but good ways to improve games

We see this today as many game developers merge in order to survive or close in order not to be lost in debt.Other developers encouter a reduction in profits.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29036

 

[DudeMiester]

imho, the only reasons the cost are high is because every insists on doing everything by hand. If you look at offline renderers, the best (Maxwell), is incredibly easy to use because everything is done internally. You don't need to place and tweek hundreds of lights, because the GI is so perfect. In the end you save work time at the cost of processing time, which is always getting cheaper, unlike work time.

 

[superguy]

DeanO needs to quit complaining and get back to work!

We'll have all the fun when the game is done and we're playing, thanks!

 

[Laa-Yosh]

imho, the only reasons the cost are high is because every insists on doing everything by hand. If you look at offline renderers, the best (Maxwell), is incredibly easy to use because everything is done internally. You don't need to place and tweek hundreds of lights, because the GI is so perfect. In the end you save work time at the cost of processing time, which is always getting cheaper, unlike work time.

It may look like that to you, but in reality Maxwell is absolutely un-usable in any serious animation production. Rendering a smaller than film res, noisy still image from a simple architectural interior with moderate amounts of geometry in 8-24 hours is totally unacceptable. Have you seen the new Cars trailer? That is movie-level scene complexity, with tens of thousands of cars in the Nascar stadium... Maxwell couldn't even start rendering that kind of scene.
So I'm sorry but you're totally wrong here.

 

[nelg]

Good post Nesh,

What I found saddening about Deano's blog post was more the toll on moral not the budgets. Though the two are somewhat related. Ironic that producing entertainment is becoming so arduous.

 

[MfA]

Marco, that's not funny at all.

There is a slight irony to it given that a lot of the fresh and eager graduates this industry grinds into the ground tend to be libertarian.

 

[Megadrive1988]

lets go back to sprite-based graphics, and parallax scroll! ^__^

 

[nismo123]

More talks

We'll see how good Deano's game turns out to be, it's no good complaining about other's games in this manner. It doesn't look professional. We'll Judge just how good HS turns out to be.