Electric Vehicle Thread!

GM and Ford both show greater sales growth of EVs in 2024 than Tesla.

Tesla’s fourth-quarter sales didn’t live up to lofty expectations. One reason might be improving competition.

Ford Motor and General Motors on Friday reported their year-end U.S. delivery figures. They both turned in a solid year of electric-vehicle sales, growing faster than the overall U.S. EV market.

Ford sold 30,176 all-electric cars in the fourth quarter, up about 16% year over. Mustang Mach-E sales led the way up 36%. F-150 Lightning sales lagged down about 10%.

For the full year, EV came in at 97,865 vehicles, up 35%. Hybrid sales amounted to 187,426 vehicles, up 40%. Total U.S. sales came in at 2.1 million vehicles, up 4% year over year.


Ford stock was up 0.7% in midday trading, while the S&P 500 and Dow Jones Industrial Average were up 0.7% and 0.5%, respectively. GM stock rose shortly after the results were released, and Tesla stock is now up nearly 4%.

GM sold about 44,000 all-electric cars —a quarterly record, and up about 126% year over year. For the year, GM sold about 114,000 EVs, up more than 50% compared with 2023. Total U.S. sales came in at 2.7 million vehicles, up about 4% year over year.

Overall, Americans are on pace to buy about 1.3 million all-electric cars in 2024, up 5% to 10% from 2023. Ford and GM did better than the market. That wasn’t the case for Tesla, though it still dominates U.S. EV sales with about 50% market share. Tesla’s regional numbers aren’t available yet, but through September it sold some 471,000 EVs to Americans, down about 5% year over year.
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Moreover, Ford and GM both reported the highest sales since 2019, the last year before the pandemic.

The unit growth from 2023 to 2024 were all driven by EV sales.

GM said sales were driven by increases in all four of its U.S. brands as well as a roughly 50% increase in sales of electric vehicles to more than 114,400 units.

Despite the notable increase in EV sales, the vehicles only made up 4.2% of the automaker’s overall sales. GM estimated it achieved a 12% EV market share in the U.S. during the fourth quarter.

It was a similar trend at Ford, which reported a notable increase in sales of its “electrified” vehicles, including EVs and hybrids.

Ford on Friday reported 2024 sales of 2.08 million vehicles, up from just under 2 million in 2023. In 2019, the automaker sold 2.42 million vehicles in the U.S. For the fourth quarter, Ford reported an 8.8% year-over-year increase in sales to 530,660 vehicles sold.

That automaker said full-year sales of its vehicles with traditional internal combustion engines increased 0.2% compared to 2023, while sales of electrified vehicles increased 38.3% year over year.

Electrified vehicles, including hybrids and EVs, represented 13.7% of Ford’s total annual sales.
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So considering that GM and Ford both talked about delaying the rollout of EVs, it turns out double-digit sales growth of EVs compared to 2023 accounted for most of the unit volume increase year over year, while ICE vehicle sales remained flat or grew very modestly.

Still, the sales numbers are the best in 5 years, again because of EVs.
 
This
Affordable, small, nice looking (ok it's personal), well built.

Maybe in some years, they will upgrade the batteries to be lighter and faster charging, and then it will be definitive as a city car.


ev-database.org

Fiat Grande Panda

All details and specs of the Fiat Grande Panda (2024). Compare price, lease, real-world range and consumption of every electric vehicle.
ev-database.org ev-database.org
 
Interesting new model there. Not quite sure the styling would be for me (certain of it, in fact!), but it looks a well-designed vehicle.

I wonder what is going on with the strange acceleration situation, though? The relatively slow creep to motorway speed isn't much of an issue on smaller roads and in town, but the lack of instant acceleration seems an odd choice. Given the way electric motors work with immediate high levels of torque, this must surely be a software choice? Seems very odd to me.

Anybody else have any ideas why this might be an issue which wouldn't be related to a design choice?
 
Electric motors are, in a way, built like internal combustion engines -- if you want to produce massive torque reliably, you have to build a far more stout device than something which can live with a lot less torque. In an ICE motor, this is thicker crank mains and journals, a sturdier block with stronger main caps or even a main girdle, along with stronger connecting rods, stronger wristpins, more durable main cap and rod-end and cylinder head bolts (or even studs...)

In an electric motor, this means a very high current delivery and handling capability. High current handling requires far more copper in the windings (and room to hold all those windings), a stronger stator casing to hold it all together and stay firmly attached to the frame, a stronger rotor assembly to connect to the (thicker) axles or single-step gearcase, and of course a stronger gear case. All this amperage in the motor also must keep cool otherwise the overly-expanding rotor can and will grind itself into the stator windings (remember: heat expansion!) The \power delivery TO that motor assembly also needs similar treatment: a battery pack optimized for high amperage output, voltage control systems meant to manage lower outputs (idling down the street) and also support higher throughput (full acceleration), and all the thick copper wiring to carry said amperage. Finally, all that non-motor equipment I just listed also needs additional cooling to make sure it doesn't burn up.

Radical changes in electrical load carrying capacity is very much not so simple as a software change.
 
But, in the review, she said that you put your foot down and it does nothing for a couple of seconds before kicking in. Not gradually increasing torque as you get with an ICE, but on and off. Of course, I could have misunderstood what she was trying to say on the review.

Ultimately, it's the first time I've ever heard of an electric vehicle being slow off the line, or slow to react. Even the likes of the Leaf were always noted as being nippy around town, even though not quick.

It just seems very strange to me.
 
Maximum torque of any electric motor is at zero RPM, which also equates to maximum power consumption. Limited power delivery due to all the things I listed above would result in feeling unresponsive or even laggy off the line. At the same time, the reviewer's way of explaining things does leave it a bit ambiguous.

I'm still pretty convinced it's an efficiency play. In our Tesla Model Y Performance, it's amazing how gutless the chill mode truly feels after driving it around in performance mode for hours or even days or weeks. Suddenly you're lurching yourself forward while pinning the throttle, your body working to counteract the g-forces which never arrive. It feels lethargic and broken, until you realize it's just limiting power in order to maintain a higher level of efficiency (at your own request, in my example.)
 
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MG has a deal on the MG5 at the moment in parts of Europe and UK. Here it's 9k off stickerprice and 2.5k minimum trade in (only for cars registered to you at least 6 months). Puts it in the same range of the new cheap compacts.
 
orangpelupa said:
might be grabbing a bev soon. man, the dealerships experience are a headache. way too many haggling drama
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I hate the haggling stuff. In 30 years of driving I've owned five cars and only bought four voluntarily. My current car is 13 years-old, I've owned it for 7 and will keep it for at least another 7-10 years.

Just because I hate dealing with the people who sell cars.
 
I went for a Honda Prologue lease in December. Not my ideal car but the deal was too good to pass up.

I had just got off a CRV lease early, made some money on it. But the Prologue will actually cost $200 less a month and be thousands less over the life of the lease.

Always EVs which sound more interesting on the horizon, like the PPE Audis which are just coming out, BMW Neue Klasse due later this year and next year, even the Cadillac Optiq, which is just coming out now.

But when the lease is done, these new EVs will have been out a couple of years and even if they take away the EV tax credit, it should be more competitive for buyers.

Still my electricity rates are nuts, 49 cents per kWh, more in the summer.

However, the Prologue lease includes $300 of charging and even if paying out of pocket, I can find a couple of chargers near my house which charge 30 cents per kWh.

I was getting estimates from electricians to install a L2 charger and they were like $1300 to $5000-6000 because they said I'd have to replace the panels.

Now I like won't bother, at least through this lease, which will run until almost 2028.
 
wco81 said:
Still my electricity rates are nuts, 49 cents per kWh, more in the summer
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That's crazy. Here In the UK we have the highest energy costs in Europe because of stupid market reasons but my EV tariff is the equivalent of 9 cents per kWh overnight and 30 cents the rest of the time.
 
Even still I charged from 35 to 80%, which is about 40 kWh and it cost me $8-9.

That would be about 140 miles of range. For a gas SUV, we're talking 6-7 gallons of gas which at current CA prices would be about $25 to $30.
 
maaaan, the dealership experience is really abysmall. even after we agreed to a price...

- need to pay a booking fee
- need to wait for around a week for them to say whether the agreed price is to be honored or not.
 
So I got a lease on a Honda Prologue EV in December. I'd like to say I only got it for environmental reasons but the lease terms were very enticing, much better than my previous leases.

The Honda comes with some charging credits to use at EVgo charging stations.

Today I used one for the first time. I had used a ChargePoint station right across the street from my house about 3-4 weeks ago and paid out of pocket.

For this I had to drive and I needed to charge faster so I went to an L3 charger, listed at 100kW.

My previous charging session was at a public L2 charger which was listed at 30 cents per kWh. I went from 35-80% charge, which would be about 40-45 kWh and it cost me $8-9.

In the 3-4 weeks since that charge, I put about 105 miles on it, before the charge went back down to about 35-36%. It sat in my garage for a long time, including the past couple of weeks when I was out of town.

Today's charging session cost $23-24 over 40 minutes, adding 38.25 kWh, went from 35-36% charge to 76% charge in those 40 minutes. This particular L3 charger is 63 cents per kWh and has a 99 cents connect fee.

So for comparison, gas in my area is about $4.50 to 4.60 for for regular grade. A car this size would probably get about 20 miles at best in mostly city driving, which is what those 105 miles since the previous charge represents.

So say 4.5 to 5 gallons to fuel 105 miles of city driving on a compact SUV. That would work out to $18.50 to $23 or $24 at local gas prices.

About the same as this L3 charging session.

EV operating costs won't save me money if I go to L3 chargers all the time.

I did get estimates to install an L2 charger at home but PG & E rates are 49 to 59 cents per kWh depending on the season and the time of day.

So even if I didn't amortize the $1300 to 5300 costs to install (the latter is if I pay to upgrade the 40-year old sub panel in my garage), on an operating basis, it's only a little better than gas to charge at home.

Of course gas prices go up and down. Plus if I'm content to charge it for 5-7 hours at a public L2 charger, I can cut my charging costs by 1/2 to 2/3.

I suspect the cheap public L2 chargers near my house is being subsidized by the city because they're on the grounds of the public library and city hall in my town.

But I got a couple hundred in charging credits left so maybe in a few months I will try to keep my charging costs down.
 
I could charge at my work for 8c/KWh, with no other costs added, but I don't have an option to charge at home and that is not going to change for the foreseeable future, so I'm still hesitant to buy an EV, otherwise I like the tech and as long as I work here, there would be no problems, just not too sure how long I will remain at this company...

My current car is a tiny 3.4 meters long Peugeot 107 from 2011. It's a Toyota Aygo clone with a 3-cylinder 1000cc Japanese timing chain engine that is very reliable. This thing basically doesn't cost anything to run over here haha. I pay 150€ a year for insurance and it does 100km with around 5l of fuel in the winter and a bit better in the summer.
 
Which country is this?

I'm in Silicon Valley. Many of the companies have chargers for their employees in the company parking lots. Free charging, though at some point they may not have enough chargers and people will have to wait or go into work early.
 
I am in Finland. We can charge free, but only at really low Charging speeds. The 8c charging is still not very fast. I think 11KWh, but that's fast enough. Free would be nice, but that is still better than I could get at home, because when charging at home we have to pay taxes and transfer fees on top of the electric price and total is going to be more than 8c by then.
 
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