Electric Vehicle Thread!

[cheapchips]

So the boot is very limited, because it looks to be shaped kind of like a stub compared to SUVs?

Passenger space is okay but the cargo space seems more limited.

They also have the Niro and the Kona, which are $10-15k less than the Ioniq 5/Kia EV6 class of cars.

I think also in the US, they have grander expectations. They have a Kia 3-row SUV EV and they plan to introduce another under the Ioniq brand.

They might do better to introduce more of a minivan, with sliding side doors on either side. ICE minivans are popular in the US. VW introduced the ID.Buzz but the price is pretty high. I don't know if they're roomier than most SUV EVs but probably better for families with the side door.

The boot's 238 - 350 litres depending on where you have the back seat. For a car that's under 4m that's really good. It's more of a 1-2 person car where 2 more people get to be passengers in comfort. Since the seats fold completely flat, it'll be amazingly versatile for a couple.

Kia start selling the PV5 van next year. They'll be a passenger version of that. It's ID Buzz (SWB) sized. Not sure if that'll come to the States, but they did show it at CES so assume so.

 

[MfA]

But only 2-doors and a hatch, not 4 doors and a hatch.

Nah, it's 4 doors.

 

[Sxotty]

Mercantilism isn't about giving hand outs indefinitely, the party eventually stops and then you're suddenly a third world country unable to build anything nor export anything but natural resources. Having a bunch of EVs you can't maintain is a poor replacement for autarky.

Ideally we'd live in a global kumbayah of comparative advantage, but alas we don't.

Of course, I just meant if the UK didn't care about making cars they can get Chinese citizens to pay for their cars, sell the scrap to EU automakers and then the EU countries can build cars with the scrap subsidized by Chinese citizens. This only is a helpful strategy if the UK didn't care about building cars. In the end when China gets tired of paying for other countries to transition to EVs the EU will still build cars and the UK can just buy from there instead if they prefer. It will make China a large automaker but they already are. China will likely own the market in developing world as well. They probably will anyway, not to mention the resources there. China is the main new colonial power. It is the race for Africa again with China and Russia. Instead of the Europeans.

 

[fehu]

I know that beauty is subjective, but in my opinion the solution to many ev's problems is to not make them bland and ugly.

Alpine A290 / Renault 5


Alpine A390 Beta

 

[orangpelupa]

Looks like byd design language. With so many curves and prominent design elements fighting each other for attention.

I prefer zeekr, xpeng, hyundai design language

 

[fehu]

I forgot one of the best, even if it's only a concept with an eccentric engine.

Directly out from Cyberpunk 2077:

Hyundai N Vision 74

 

[orangpelupa]

Th

I forgot one of the best, even if it's only a concept with an eccentric engine.

Directly out from Cyberpunk 2077:

Hyundai N Vision 74
View attachment 12210

They do plan to release it iirc

 

[cheapchips]

I know that beauty is subjective, but in my opinion the solution to many ev's problems is to not make them bland and ugly.

What many problems?

(But yes, nice looking cars)

 

[fehu]

The kind of problems that are causing diminishing sales.
Of course, the main problems are price once the wealthy have already got one, charging times if you can't charge at home or you usually travel, but the look is certainly one for me.
Another very personal problem is that they tend to make them huge nearing 5 meters, making it impractical where I live. (I have a beautiful 3.7m Suzuki Ignis)

People need affordable practical down to earth inspiring cars.

Honda e (discontinued)

This picture doesn't make it justice

Another Honda concept with the same design language

This is out of Speed racer

Mitsubishi DX concept for outdoor on a distant planet


These are vehicles that make you say "Want!".
The Alpine A290 makes me want to get one just to climb a mountain road full of curves and have fun.
At the moment we have mostly vehicles that make assholes say "Others will know that I'm rich and don't care where and how I park it".

 

[orangpelupa]

that mitsubishi seems gonna be launched by KIA. its called KIA WAKANDA or something sounding similar to that.

 

[WhiningKhan]

Says:

but the look is certainly one for me.

Then proceeds to show pictures of Paw Patrol vehicles.

But at least you admitted it's a personal problem.

I for one am happy that there are now EVs which look like cars and not Duplo kits.

 

[cheapchips]

The kind of problems that are causing diminishing sales.

Overall, they're causing a reduction in the increasing rate of sales. But agree on price, size and looks. SUV/Crossovers are an utter curse.

 

[cheapchips]

Kia's PV5 Wkndr concept probably has more of a chance of becoming real than that Mitsubishi concept. The regular van PV5 goes on sale next year.

 

[MfA]

I have a beautiful 3.7m Suzuki Ignis

Is that really so different to you from the design of Hyundai Inster and Fiat Grande Panda?

 

[fehu]

Both Inster and Grande Panda weren't available in my country when I bought mine, but I considered them.
Inster is very close to the Ignis, Grande Panda starts too much to look like an suv, but good design.
They are both decent looking, practical, and for once affordable by normal people.

 

[wco81]

Mazda-branded EV selling in China for about $20k with long range and fast charging.

Mazda’s all-electric EZ-6 gets up to 600 km (372 miles) CLTC range with fast charging (30% to 80%) in 15 minutes. Two battery options, 56.1 and 68.81 kWh, are available. The former can travel up to 480 km (298 miles), while the latter is rated with 600 km (372 miles) CLTC range.

Seven EV and EREV models are offered, with prices ranging from 139,800 to 179,800 yuan ($19,200 to $24,700).

Read in Electrek: https://apple.news/A3N8CjCEvRcy4FsxKmtGDpg

No wonder there's a big push for tariffs on Chinese EVs, American, European and Japanese manufacturers can't compete.

 

[MfA]

When BYD makes their cars in Mexico they suddenly get a whole lot more expensive. Low wage nation, with lots of car industry, and the robots don't work any differently.

 

[wco81]

AFAIK, that particular model isn't exported outside of China, at least not yet. Mazda is just putting their badge on a joint venture with a Chinese manufacturer.

For comparison, I got a Honda Prologue on a great lease. The SRP is just over $53k. But with various tax credits and incentives, my cost will be much lower than the CRV lease I had before, almost $200 a month less. The CRV model I had had an SRP under $35k.

But the range and fast charging specs on the Prologue are no better than this Mazda sold in China, which is less than half the price of the Honda before incentives.

If the Chinese can produce batteries much cheaper, there is the argument to source it from them, to push down prices and increase sales of EVs much sooner than later.

Sure you don't want to give in to China subsidizing and dumping and hurting US companies and American workers.

But clearly the balance is in favor of protectionism as opposed to making the transition to renewables and decarbonization as fast as possible.

Too much in favor, one would argue.

 

[Albuquerque]

If the Chinese can produce batteries much cheaper, there is the argument to source it from them, to push down prices and increase sales of EVs much sooner than later.

Sure you don't want to give in to China subsidizing and dumping and hurting US companies and American workers.

But clearly the balance is in favor of protectionism as opposed to making the transition to renewables and decarbonization as fast as possible.

Too much in favor, one would argue.

Yup, this is exactly where my thoughts are. At this point, these thoughts of "protectionism" are less about making America First, and more about making American Elite rich(er.) Unfortunately this only works for the very short term, as the long-term implications of becoming a hermit means you slowly but steadily lose access to purchases from other countries.

If it's too expensive to buy a competitor outside our borders, then we've now incentivized domestic industries to stop the absurdly expensive never-ending process of innovating. R&D in a highly functional industry is (and should be) a sizeable piece of operating expenses. Ensuring your company is staying ahead of competition by finding newer, better, faster, less expensive ways to provide services and value means your products are more attractive to customers, which drives growth and further creates the evolution of the product. When competition ceases to exist, there's no longer a need to innovate.

Before anyone argues about "well the individual American companies can innovate amongst themselves", you also have to consider that we live on a big round globe and our products aren't only sold to Americans. Well, if we decide to stop innovating on those products so they're trailing further and further behind competing products from other countries, our export rates will continue to fall in lock-step with our inability to compete on a global scale.

You know what happens to the economy of a country that can't sell anything to anyone but themselves?

 

[Davros]

The MG Cyberster is a good looking car imho