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Nvidia DLSS 1 and 2 antialiasing discussion *spawn*
- Thread starter DavidGraham
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Man from Atlantis
Veteran
Thanks, i attached the nsight file as well. You can download and investigate yourself.
DLSS
DLSS OFF
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DavidGraham
Veteran
Someone has missed with the files in Control and created a custom DLSS 2 solution that upscales the game from 576p to 2880p, and the results are amazing for such a low base resolution.
https://imgsli.com/MTUwMDg/0/2
https://imgsli.com/MTUwMDg/0/2
whoa shit. really funky that this even works. They should do a check to verify those inputs leads to those outputs.. hard to check though without looking at the inner workings.
That's epic, the mesh on that fan the character looks at is still damn 'sharp'. 576p lol, that's back to 6th gen in terms of resolution almost, og xbox was running most of it's games at native 480p, but some did 720p, a few real 1080i. Quake 3 runs smooth 720p on that thing.
2880p is beyond 4k in terms of resolution, 576p matching it in stills is just epic. The amount of resources being freed up must be huge. This dlss is a game changer.
@DavidGraham That’s really interesting. I’m curious how dlss scales. Does it take longer to upscale the bigger the disparity between input and output? Might be interesting to set an insanely low input resolution to see when the tensor performance becomes the bottleneck. There may be some lower bound where you no longer gain performance because you’re tensor limited.
that wouldn't cause the network to change. The models are trained. You can't grow or shrink the model in realtime.
I think it's likely scaling the image before and after the NN.
DavidGraham
Veteran
More crazy experiments, this time upscaling from 270p to 1080p, results are impressive.
Really cool that it's that flexible, but anything below 960x540 has some issues with thin geometry. That wire-frame letter holder on the desk breaks apart pretty badly. Still pretty amazing that it works as well as it does.
neckthrough
Regular
I like the top two comments on that Reddit link:
"Forcing AI to upscale a 270p picture to 1080p about 100 times a second is why they’ll destroy humanity."
"Nice, 270p looks slightly better than Xbox One."
"Forcing AI to upscale a 270p picture to 1080p about 100 times a second is why they’ll destroy humanity."
"Nice, 270p looks slightly better than Xbox One."
D
Deleted member 2197
Guest
NVIDIA DLSS 2.0 - Performance test and image quality comparison
April 26, 2020
April 26, 2020
https://www.purepc.pl/nvidia-dlss-20-test-wydajnosci-i-porownanie-jakosci-obrazu
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Deleted member 2197
Guest
Rumor: Death Stranding PC will support DLSS 2.0 Tech
June 29, 2020
June 29, 2020
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/death-stranding-pc-support-dlss-2-0-tech/
Panino Manino
Newcomer
Ars Technica published a preview of Death Stranding for PC and the conclusion was "Use AMD CAS instead": https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020...of-death-stranding-is-the-definitive-version/
"With the Nvidia RTX 2060 Super, meanwhile, you might expect Nvidia's proprietary DLSS standard to be your preferred option to get up to 4K resolution at 60fps. Yet astoundingly, AMD's FidelityFX CAS, which is platform agnostic, wins out against the DLSS "quality" setting.
Both of these systems generally require serious squinting to make out their rendering lapses, and both apply a welcome twist on standard temporal anti-aliasing (TAA) to the image, meaning they're not only adding more pixels to a lower base resolution but also smoothing them out in mostly organic ways. But FidelityFX CAS preserves a slight bit more detail in the game's particle and rain systems, which ranges from a shoulder-shrug of, "yeah, AMD is a little better" most of the time to a head-nod of, "okay, AMD wins this round" in rare moments. AMD's lead is most evident during cut scenes, when dramatic zooms on pained characters like Sam "Porter" Bridges are combined with dripping, watery effects."
"The above image is taken from PS4, and you'll notice a sparkling effect of particles on the open bodybag, generated in part by rain falling all around. It's the kind of detail Kojima Productions likely agonized over to get right, since the studio is obsessed with visual storytelling (and this moment is a reveal of a major supernatural force). Nvidia's DLSS, unfortunately, gets confused by this field of sparkling pixels and messes it up, turning the exposed body into a simple, black mass. Other moments and entities in the game, particularly the swirling-particle creatures known as BTs, suffer from similar issues when put through the DLSS wringer, though in many cases, these occur during live gameplay and are thus less noticeable."
"But Death Stranding is a high-falutin' game with auteur aspirations, and this means that tiny details, like sparkly highlights in a cut scene, matter. Until Nvidia straightens this DLSS wrinkle up, or until the game includes a "disable DLSS for cut scenes" toggle, you'll want to favor FidelityFX CAS, which looks nearly identical to "quality DLSS" while preserving additional minute details and adding 2-3fps, to boot."
"With the Nvidia RTX 2060 Super, meanwhile, you might expect Nvidia's proprietary DLSS standard to be your preferred option to get up to 4K resolution at 60fps. Yet astoundingly, AMD's FidelityFX CAS, which is platform agnostic, wins out against the DLSS "quality" setting.
Both of these systems generally require serious squinting to make out their rendering lapses, and both apply a welcome twist on standard temporal anti-aliasing (TAA) to the image, meaning they're not only adding more pixels to a lower base resolution but also smoothing them out in mostly organic ways. But FidelityFX CAS preserves a slight bit more detail in the game's particle and rain systems, which ranges from a shoulder-shrug of, "yeah, AMD is a little better" most of the time to a head-nod of, "okay, AMD wins this round" in rare moments. AMD's lead is most evident during cut scenes, when dramatic zooms on pained characters like Sam "Porter" Bridges are combined with dripping, watery effects."
"The above image is taken from PS4, and you'll notice a sparkling effect of particles on the open bodybag, generated in part by rain falling all around. It's the kind of detail Kojima Productions likely agonized over to get right, since the studio is obsessed with visual storytelling (and this moment is a reveal of a major supernatural force). Nvidia's DLSS, unfortunately, gets confused by this field of sparkling pixels and messes it up, turning the exposed body into a simple, black mass. Other moments and entities in the game, particularly the swirling-particle creatures known as BTs, suffer from similar issues when put through the DLSS wringer, though in many cases, these occur during live gameplay and are thus less noticeable."
"But Death Stranding is a high-falutin' game with auteur aspirations, and this means that tiny details, like sparkly highlights in a cut scene, matter. Until Nvidia straightens this DLSS wrinkle up, or until the game includes a "disable DLSS for cut scenes" toggle, you'll want to favor FidelityFX CAS, which looks nearly identical to "quality DLSS" while preserving additional minute details and adding 2-3fps, to boot."
D
Deleted member 2197
Guest
Death Stranding With DLSS 2.0 Allows for 4K and 60 FPS on Any RTX GPU
July 1, 2020
In a strange move, however, we're not allowed to show you videos or images of the PC version yet. We have the above pre-order video, and Nvidia was able to provide us with a few 4K DLSS screenshots, but apparently 505 Games and Kojima Productions don't want anyone to spoil the story — never mind the fact that the game has been out for eight months on PlayStation 4. But we can share some initial impressions, and that means some early benchmarking from yours truly.
...
This isn't our full performance analysis, since we only have an early access build and potentially unoptimized drivers. We'll hold off on additional testing of GPUs and CPUs until the full release, but in the meantime we wanted to check out performance as well as DLSS 2.0. Let's start with the latter.
...
As far as image quality goes, playing the game with and without DLSS, I couldn't tell whether it was on or off without looking at the settings or framerate. I've even got screenshots taken with DLSS using both the quality and performance modes, along with no DLSS and TAA (Temporal Anti-Aliasing). The performance mode looks just a tad worse, though at higher resolutions it's far less noticeable. Against TAA, I think DLSS quality mode looks better, partly because TAA tends to over blur things.
...
Death Stranding also supports AMD's FidelityFX CAS, aka Contrast Aware Sharpening. In other games, I've found the overall effect pleasing, but Death Stranding isn't just using FidelityFX for sharpening; it also does upscaling. Basically, it's a post-processing filter that does similar work as DLSS, only you don't need an RTX card. The problem is that — at least in the preview build — the sharpening and upscaling causes some visible shimmer. It's not terrible, and it's a way to boost framerates that some people will undoubtedly appreciate, but the effect was certainly noticeable when moving around.
...
The RTX 2060 is the bottom of the RTX line, and it benefited more from DLSS at lower resolutions. DLSS quality mode improved performance at 1080p from 103 fps to 128 fps, a 25% increase. 1440p went from 75 fps to 100 fps (33% faster), and 4K improved from 43 to 56 fps (31%). It looks like DLSS quality mode can boost performance by 30-35% overall, provided you're GPU limited. What about DLSS performance mode? That was enough to take even the RTX 2060 above 60 fps (77 fps to be precise) at 4K. Obviously there's a lot less rendering work going on, since DLSS performance mode renders at half the vertical and horizontal resolution (so 4K DLSS performance is 1080p with DLSS upscaling). Still, unless you're pixel peeping it's difficult to see the difference between the various upscaling modes at 4K.
...
We'll be back with a more in-depth look at performance and image quality once the retail release of Death Stranding is available. For now, it looks like it will run very well on any RTX GPU at 4K, provided you enable DLSS. AMD's GPUs should also do fine with FidelityFX, though with slightly lower image quality. Or you can skip both upscaling options and just run the game at native.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/death-stranding-pc-dlss-performance-preview
July 1, 2020
In a strange move, however, we're not allowed to show you videos or images of the PC version yet. We have the above pre-order video, and Nvidia was able to provide us with a few 4K DLSS screenshots, but apparently 505 Games and Kojima Productions don't want anyone to spoil the story — never mind the fact that the game has been out for eight months on PlayStation 4. But we can share some initial impressions, and that means some early benchmarking from yours truly.
...
This isn't our full performance analysis, since we only have an early access build and potentially unoptimized drivers. We'll hold off on additional testing of GPUs and CPUs until the full release, but in the meantime we wanted to check out performance as well as DLSS 2.0. Let's start with the latter.
...
As far as image quality goes, playing the game with and without DLSS, I couldn't tell whether it was on or off without looking at the settings or framerate. I've even got screenshots taken with DLSS using both the quality and performance modes, along with no DLSS and TAA (Temporal Anti-Aliasing). The performance mode looks just a tad worse, though at higher resolutions it's far less noticeable. Against TAA, I think DLSS quality mode looks better, partly because TAA tends to over blur things.
...
Death Stranding also supports AMD's FidelityFX CAS, aka Contrast Aware Sharpening. In other games, I've found the overall effect pleasing, but Death Stranding isn't just using FidelityFX for sharpening; it also does upscaling. Basically, it's a post-processing filter that does similar work as DLSS, only you don't need an RTX card. The problem is that — at least in the preview build — the sharpening and upscaling causes some visible shimmer. It's not terrible, and it's a way to boost framerates that some people will undoubtedly appreciate, but the effect was certainly noticeable when moving around.
...
The RTX 2060 is the bottom of the RTX line, and it benefited more from DLSS at lower resolutions. DLSS quality mode improved performance at 1080p from 103 fps to 128 fps, a 25% increase. 1440p went from 75 fps to 100 fps (33% faster), and 4K improved from 43 to 56 fps (31%). It looks like DLSS quality mode can boost performance by 30-35% overall, provided you're GPU limited. What about DLSS performance mode? That was enough to take even the RTX 2060 above 60 fps (77 fps to be precise) at 4K. Obviously there's a lot less rendering work going on, since DLSS performance mode renders at half the vertical and horizontal resolution (so 4K DLSS performance is 1080p with DLSS upscaling). Still, unless you're pixel peeping it's difficult to see the difference between the various upscaling modes at 4K.
...
We'll be back with a more in-depth look at performance and image quality once the retail release of Death Stranding is available. For now, it looks like it will run very well on any RTX GPU at 4K, provided you enable DLSS. AMD's GPUs should also do fine with FidelityFX, though with slightly lower image quality. Or you can skip both upscaling options and just run the game at native.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/death-stranding-pc-dlss-performance-preview
If the AMD CAS is doing some Form of reconstruction, I would be very surprised. It does not look reconstructed to me really. Looks like 75% res scale with TAA and sharpening.
I am making my coverage right now, but it does not seem like anything different to me than what we saw before....just that in this game the CAS toggle also Drops resolution below native output.
DavidGraham
Veteran
DLSS 2 (Quality Mode) in Death Stranding runs better than native res + TAA, as it provides more stable details with far less flickering and also better AA, while boosting fps by 30-40
D
Deleted member 2197
Guest
"Normally we would be looking just at how close the DLSS image quality can get to the native result along with the performance increase, but Death Stranding has changed the game on that topic. We actually see improvements in some areas when using DLSS rather than TAA or FXAA in Death Stranding. The performance benefit at 1440p and 4K is worth taking in along with the improved aliasing methods even at the expense of the slight ghosting effect you get in smaller on-screen details.
...
But, FidelityFX cannot be ignored in this title for those not rocking an RTX line of cards. While the visuals do take a hit because of the lowered rendering resolution and upscaling we are able to see a quick performance gain for everyone not on the RTX train. This means even those who own GTX cards will get a benefit as well along with those rocking Radeon cards as well."
https://wccftech.com/death-stranding-and-dlss-2-0-gives-a-serious-boost-all-around/
...
But, FidelityFX cannot be ignored in this title for those not rocking an RTX line of cards. While the visuals do take a hit because of the lowered rendering resolution and upscaling we are able to see a quick performance gain for everyone not on the RTX train. This means even those who own GTX cards will get a benefit as well along with those rocking Radeon cards as well."
https://wccftech.com/death-stranding-and-dlss-2-0-gives-a-serious-boost-all-around/
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