Xenon Project

Again, Xbox2 doesn't need a great CPU because all the CPU would have to do is Physics and AI. The GPU does all the graphics.

Oh and multi chip? There are problems with that, heat, developer issues.

Add to the fact if the Xenon were to facilitate a multiple chip design, programming will be a major headache for developers (see: PS2).
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Quite obvious that Xbox2 isn't just going to be a game console, recording television shows onto a 40GB hdd? It's basically a tivo with game functions. Gates also said that Xbox2 would have wifi capabilities aswell.
 
If the application is threaded then I wouldn't see it as that much of an issue (unless there were very many cores to make use of). A number of games are already utilising physics and AI in different threads to get the benefits of multiprocessors or HyperThreaded CPU's.

Personally, I'd find it more likely that a single HyperThreaded CPU would be used though.

Quite obvious that Xbox2 isn't just going to be a game console, recording television shows onto a 40GB hdd?
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Eh? No, its going to be a game console with a load of other functionality as well. In that time period these types of features will be very cheap to implement, and they are already rife on the PC. A 40GB hdd is nothing these days, and I'd say that 2.5" drive would be used to keep size down.
 
No, its going to be a game console with a load of other functionality as well. In that time period these types of features will be very cheap to implement, and they are already rife on the PC. A 40GB hdd is nothing these days, and I'd say that 2.5" drive would be used to keep size down.
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The reason why MS is messing around with the console market is becoming aparent at this point when you hear what is being said with Xbox2.

It's so they can try and prevent Sony from installing Linux based machines into millions of homes with their Playstation; and so they can try and beat Sony to the living room or before they know it they have the living room controlled by other OS's besides Windows.

It's all so blatant and obvious at this point it isn't even funny, with all the billions that have been dumped into Xbox, do you really think this is all to please us gamers? Uhh no, on the surface this is what they want everyone to belive, that they really do care about gaming as a whole; but I don't buy it.

Look no further than to Xbox 2, they COULDNT pull a whole tivo thing with Xbox 1 because noone would buy it, they would laugh at it.

But all of a sudden how the tables turn, xbox 2 is being touted as a do-it-all device not unlike Sony's goal.

If Xbox2 were really going to just be a "gaming" system there would be no need for all these "gimmicks" as seamus blackely often described PS2's DVD capability as. No need for a Tivo, no need to be recording shows onto an Xbox HDD.

I mean astleast Sony is honest about it, they say they want Playstation to turn into a do-it-all; and we see this with PSP and we will with PS3. This is why you have Cell, a processor that can run multiple devices and handle network packets. This is to jack PS3 into the net, so sony can have a shot at their beyond gaming goal.

MS tout's "video game system" but on the xbox2 box they may have to write something similar to Sony "computer entertainment console".

Not saying that I hate Xbox, I love it and I love the games. However, I do not like the motives behind it.

I'm not going to argue this with you, because the topic will go to hell. I've stated my opinion, you gave yours. Nothing is going to change our opinions.
 
The long term motives behind the PSX and XBox are the same: to get a portal into everyone's living rooms - I don't think anyone thought any different. MS always had the plan of putting the PC in the living room, but that hasn't quite panned out the way they wanted (although with Media Center and the video integration that ATI and NVIDIA are doing the idea's of multimedia servers are gaining popularity - just not at all fast) and they realised that Sony were doing that a little too sucessfully with the PSX so they had to do something to counter.

The motives behind the two systems are exactly the same. However, that doesn't mean to say that they are still not going to focus on the gaming functionality - clearly that would be foolish to suggest. TiVo like functionality is already available cheaply on the PC and capable DTV chips are quite cheap as well (this is possibly one of the reasons for calling ATI on to the project since they have all of this inhouse already).
 
I like this quote...
While the most advanced computing technologies have historically been developed first for large corporate users and military contractors, increasingly the fastest computers are being developed for the consumer market and for products meant to be placed under Christmas trees.

"If you look at the economics of game platforms and the power of computing on toys, this is a long-term market trend and computing trend," said Dan Reed, the supercomputing center's director. "The economics are just amazing. This is going to drive the next big wave in high-performance computing."
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Things as we know them... will also change, not just in the consoles... but in the pc arena...

MS will be one of the companies that will allow this to occur, along with nintendo... ATI...

Nvidi..r.i.p....
 
Paul said:
Again, Xbox2 doesn't need a great CPU because all the CPU would have to do is Physics and AI. The GPU does all the graphics.

Oh and multi chip? There are problems with that, heat, developer issues.

Add to the fact if the Xenon were to facilitate a multiple chip design, programming will be a major headache for developers (see: PS2).
Click to expand...

Quite obvious that Xbox2 isn't just going to be a game console, recording television shows onto a 40GB hdd? It's basically a tivo with game functions. Gates also said that Xbox2 would have wifi capabilities aswell.
Click to expand...

Intel does have a intrest in making sure Cell does not become successful. Their biggest rival IBM is trying to establish a new standard architecture via the Playstation 3. Of course Intel wants to make money out of the deal selling chips to Microsoft, but at the same time they really don't want to see Microsoft loose. This is why I think it's reasonable to assume Intel is going to make a serious effort to come up with something that has a good price to performance ratio for a home console.

Who knows maybe AMD will be in the new console, but I doubt it. I can't see Microsoft and Intel bickering with each other over what needs to be done to provide the optomial CPU. What do you do when you need low cost with high performance?
 
The feeble minded can't see beyond x86 and consoles. The fact of the matter is Intel is interested in making ICs for the model they've set up, the PC and they're also encroaching into big iron computing with itanium and have made strong strides into the embedded/mobile space with strong ARM. Now one thing to realise is that the paradigm brought to the table via CELL THREATENS Intel's cash cow. That will not go unanswer. Expect Intel to have something waiting in the wings.

I've heard rumours about Intel working on its own multicore MPU. What ISA they use, I'm not sure. I haven't kept up, but the rumour is a little stale -- 6 months - 1 year. Note, Intel has stayed on top by being very vigilant in matters such as these.
 
Intel's working on multicore netburst AND Itanic processors, this is no secret and definitely not news. I'm pretty sure they're both on public roadmaps, though they're YEARS off into the future. Expect nothing before 2005, and then only expensive high-end stuff. Anything branded Itanic's gonna be wayyy expensive anyway unless Intel shifts its focus tremendously, but that seems unlikely.

Software support for Itanic's lousy, and legacy performance is worse than rotten, IA64 isn't going to invade consumer space anytime soon, if ever at the pace things are going now.

*G*
 
Grall said:
Intel's working on multicore netburst AND Itanic processors, this is no secret and definitely not news. I'm pretty sure they're both on public roadmaps, though they're YEARS off into the future. Expect nothing before 2005, and then only expensive high-end stuff. Anything branded Itanic's gonna be wayyy expensive anyway unless Intel shifts its focus tremendously, but that seems unlikely.

Software support for Itanic's lousy, and legacy performance is worse than rotten, IA64 isn't going to invade consumer space anytime soon, if ever at the pace things are going now.

*G*
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Intel has a massive R/D budget. I'm sure for years they've had a lot of intresting designs ideas just sitting on the shelf gathering dust. Now with Microsoft going around to hardware designers with a big fat wallet, some of these research projects have probably gotten a second look. It all boils down to economics in the end. If the cost isn't low enough no matter how great the idea is, it simply won't be built.
 
Brimstone said:
Intel has a massive R/D budget. I'm sure for years they've had a lot of intresting designs ideas just sitting on the shelf gathering dust. Now with Microsoft going around to hardware designers with a big fat wallet, some of these research projects have probably gotten a second look.
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I doubt M$ will commission anything custom. It simply doesn't seem like their style. Their strength lies in the x86 realm, straying from that means heading out into deep, dark waters. Their server OSes for non-Intel architectures all bit the dust after all, and not really because non-Intel systems don't sell...!

It all boils down to economics in the end. If the cost isn't low enough no matter how great the idea is, it simply won't be built.
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This is especially true with M$ (uh, and Nintendo too actually heh-heh!). If they just buy a bog-standard Intel chip they get cheap economics from mass production for free. A custom chip would not offer that.


*G*
 
Just for the record
Now one thing to realise is that the paradigm brought to the table via CELL THREATENS Intel's cash cow
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Cell can hardly be considered a paradigm introducing architecture regarding implicit single system parallel computing with replicated control (ask any cs student about cdc 6600, staran, ...., don't even start aking people from the respective engineering domains). It's role *might* be paradigm changing in regards to show that this approach can actually compete and beat what's on the market in the low end segment. Though multi core setups have been on various roadmaps long before cell was announced so while i very much agree that it *might* have considerable market impact (if executed flawlessly), i am quite confident that its scientific impacts will be neglectable.
 
I've heard rumours about Intel working on its own multicore MPU. What ISA they use, I'm not sure. I haven't kept up, but the rumour is a little stale -- 6 months - 1 year. Note, Intel has stayed on top by being very vigilant in matters such as these.
Click to expand...


interesting. so perhaps Xbox 2 will use some multi-core derivative of Itanium, or some Intel CPU. I'm not putting words in your mouth here, I am just throwing in a little speculation / guessing of my own. I hope that happens. it sounds alot better than just something like Pentium M.
 
Quite obvious that Xbox2 isn't just going to be a game console, recording television shows onto a 40GB hdd? It's basically a tivo with game functions. Gates also said that Xbox2 would have wifi capabilities aswell
Click to expand...
And so? MS never said XB2 will be a game console only. Big deal...

The reason why MS is messing around with the console market is becoming aparent at this point when you hear what is being said with Xbox2.
Click to expand...
The same reasons as Sony. Big deal...

It's all so blatant and obvious at this point it isn't even funny, with all the billions that have been dumped into Xbox, do you really think this is all to please us gamers? Uhh no, on the surface this is what they want everyone to belive, that they really do care about gaming as a whole; but I don't buy it
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I don't buy that Sony cares about us gamers either. Big deal...

I mean astleast Sony is honest about it,
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And Xbox, as MS has always said, stays as a videogaming console for its main priority. Objectives change with time. Big deal...

However, I do not like the motives behind it.
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Motives are similar to Sony's. Big deal..

MS will be one of the companies that will allow this to occur, along with nintendo... ATI...

Nvidi..r.i.p....
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You mean MS will R-I-P??? :oops: :LOL: :oops:

Xbox 2 will be more than a media center. The PC heritage will become much more evident next gen.
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More for less, YAY! Big deal...


No wonder i see lots of Xbox hate around... you guys are biasing against the wrong thing! :LOL:
 
You just don't get it Chap, your quoting half of the story; and not even doing a good job.

And so? MS never said XB2 will be a game console only. Big deal...
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This goes against everything that fellow Seamus and the crew were saying about Xbox as a whole, and how Xbox would be a gaming console for the hardcore. You have these guys laughing at PS2 because it had a DVD player and how it wasn't a gamers console because it had all these "gimmicks".(usb port, firewire)

And look how the tables have turned, all of this went to nothing basically; the true colors of MS's intentions are now clear. They don't give a damn about gamers in the end, they are ONLY HERE to stop Sony from putting Linux in millions of homes. The whole scam they pulled with the Xbox1 stuff(it being for gamers, no gimmicks,) was to attract the gaming crowd so they could get a following to help take down Sony with it's own all-in-one xbox2. Nothing more.


The same reasons as Sony. Big deal...
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Again you missed the entire point. The only reason why MS is in the console business is to stop Sony or another company from taking over the living room with a competing OS such as Linux. It's this type of pure greed and monopolystic ideas that are really just a damn shame.

Them losing billions on Xbox supports my case. MS doesn't really care how much money they lose on the whole Xbox thing, money ISNT the point. It's to make Xbox the number one console one day so that they have their trojan horse into the living room so no other OS's can be used other than Windows. There really is no money to be made in the console business for MS, especially since it would take until Xbox3 to make up all the losses incured so far.



I don't buy that Sony cares about us gamers either. Big deal...
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Why are you bringing Sony into all this? Is this your cache-22? Sony really doesn't care about gamers either, the only one who even remotely does is Nintendo.

But it's Sony who brings inovation into the console business more than MS, I mean take a damn look at what they are doing. A handheld that beats the PS2 in some cases, them spending billions on a microprocessor for PS3. They dont have to do ANY of this, they could release PS3 with Xbox specs and it would still sell millions.

Sony it seems(Kutaragi) has a vision to bring entertainment to single devices. Microsoft is hellbent on stopping them install Linux into millions of devices; and to control the living room.

Sony actualy wants good in all this, MS's intentions is to be basically stop everyone from doing anything at all. Although the whole reason for ANY of this is money, however with MS money is not a problem, they just want pure control.


And Xbox, as MS has always said, stays as a videogaming console for its main priority. Objectives change with time. Big deal...
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Objectives change :LOL:

They were the same objectives since day one, Install xbox into as many homes as possible not worrying about any type of loss so you will build a fanbase for Xbox 2. With Xbox2 they will make it into basically a do-it-all to compete with the likes of Sony who has similar plans with PS3(hence Cell) and hopefully drive Sony out of the market and kill off playstation for good. Now with the console market under control they have a major trojan into the living room, at this point there really is no competition(who's left?) this is where the living room is basically taken over with Windows. Hence the two pronged attack from XP media center type deals and Xbox.
 
Paul I fail to see any major discrepency between the targets of both Sony and Microsoft. aside fro the latters known practisese just what are you objecting to?
 
It's how they lied basically and how they are such hypocrites. And why they are doing it is out of pure greed.

the post explains it all, I'm not repeating it a 3rd time.
 
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