xbox360 kiosk + CoD2 - FSAA - Aniso + Trilinear

[AlNom]

Since I'm too stupid to figure out how to edit my own posts, can you explain in terms of the mathematics? My field is scientific computing, so while I don't know everything about graphics-specific algorithms and hardware, I'm quite comfortable with dot products, scalar multiplication, matrix products, linear and spline interpolation, etc.

There is a certain postcount and maybe reputation required before edit becomes possible...


Anyhow, I found this on Google that may help explain the algorithm/calculations.

http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/Bilinear_Filtering

 

[expletive]

Taking advantage of the hardware often entails that (minimising "problems", maximising strengths, in this case, maximising the bandwidth strength at cost elsewhere). But that's my point, really.

Considering that 'taking advantage of the hardware" in this case refers to tiled rendering, a method thats been used before Xenos was even an idea on paper, i dont think we're "minimizing problems" here. Its simply a matter following best practices to get the most out of the hardware feature set. Doesnt NOT using a tiling method make the 360 no worse off than any other graphics chip?

 

[KimB]

Well, since I dont' know, can you explain why bilinear filtering has that abrupt line? I've seen it in games like Serious Sam and source ports of Doom 3, but I don't recall seeing it in Quake 2 or the majority of current-gen console games I've played (haven't played much PS2, so that's Xbox and Cube).

That line is where it's switching MIP maps. Bilinear filtering only samples from one MIP map, so you will see the seam between clear and blurry. Trilinear solves this problem by sampling from the two nearest MIP maps and interpolating between them, for a smooth transition between MIP maps.

 

[fearsomepirate]

OK, so the lines are due to where the mip levels are set, which is what I thought initially. Trilinear filtering and AF makes those lines go away, but they're due to mip mapping, which is done to make bilinear look better, not due to the actual bilinear computation itself (you can do bilinear w/o mip-mapping. Just play some crusty game on early Voodoo hardware).

 

[fearsomepirate]

And you know, I always wondered what trilinear did. I figured it was just like bilinear with maybe an extra level of interpolation, so I never knew what to look for when turning it on and off. You know, there's something to be said for putting a little more explanation in the plethora of "Graphics Options" in your typical PC game. Heck, I've heard of AF, but I have no idea how to turn it on. I never see it in any options menus.

 

[KimB]

OK, so the lines are due to where the mip levels are set, which is what I thought initially. Trilinear filtering and AF makes those lines go away, but they're due to mip mapping, which is done to make bilinear look better, not due to the actual bilinear computation itself (you can do bilinear w/o mip-mapping. Just play some crusty game on early Voodoo hardware).

Right right. MIP mapping is used so that you don't get undersampling, to dramatically reduce texture aliasing. It also has the nice effect of improving texture cache coherency, which in turn improves performance.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Taking advantage of the hardware often entails that (minimising "problems", maximising strengths, in this case, maximising the bandwidth strength at cost elsewhere). But that's my point, really.

My definition of a workaround is when you have to do extra work in order to get the same result. This is not that. This is doing extra work in order to get much better results, it's work well worth it, rather than a typical workaround, which is just work..

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

Definition of Workaround:

http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/w/workarou.htm

Now, you know...

...AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!!

 

[Junkstyle]

And you know, I always wondered what trilinear did. I figured it was just like bilinear with maybe an extra level of interpolation, so I never knew what to look for when turning it on and off. You know, there's something to be said for putting a little more explanation in the plethora of "Graphics Options" in your typical PC game. Heck, I've heard of AF, but I have no idea how to turn it on. I never see it in any options menus.

Once you do find out how to enable Anisotropic filtering, there is no going back...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

And you know, I always wondered what trilinear did. I figured it was just like bilinear with maybe an extra level of interpolation, so I never knew what to look for when turning it on and off. You know, there's something to be said for putting a little more explanation in the plethora of "Graphics Options" in your typical PC game. Heck, I've heard of AF, but I have no idea how to turn it on. I never see it in any options menus.

This is all info for me too. I always thought (as was true AFAIK) that bilinear filtering was referencing the algorithm used in texture filtering, for smoother textures instead of pixelated textures. And then they go use the same term for a different process. How rude is that! And they don't bother to explain it either!

 

[fearsomepirate]

Seriously, it's like you have to immerse yourself in Arstechnica and Tomshardware articles to even know what half the crap even does in the options menu. I go into options, see "Enable Widgetary Isomorphing," and I'm just like...WTF? I think that's one appeal of console gaming to me...optimized or not, I don't feel this compulsion to dick with setting I don't understand for an hour every time I play the game. I know I don't physically have to; it's just this impulse I've had ever since Quake 2 allowed me to screw with various settings. What's worse is when options have to be enabled on your driver settings somewhere in control panel, and I never trust those things to do what they say they'll do correctly, plus, if it screws up the game, I have to shut down the game and screw with setting all over again.

PC gaming can be seriously maddening if you don't know what you're doing.

 

[London Geezer]

PC gaming can be seriously maddening if you don't know what you're doing.

I agree, but in the end it doesn't take THAT long to learn all the things you can change in a PC game and how they affect the look (and performance) of the game. Once you get your head around it, it even kinda gets interesting in a geeky sort of way... err...

 

[fearsomepirate]

Yeah, but you've got to keep with the times, because this stuff just accelerates. Back in 1997, I knew just about everything about everything about those raycasting engines and the latest, polygoniest technology. I took a hiatus for a couple years, came back, and now I'm in over my head. It's like you have to be disciplined about it, at which point for me it's more work than it is fun. There's definitely a barrier to entry with PC gaming that just gets higher every year.

 

[pjbliverpool]

I've heard of AF, but I have no idea how to turn it on. I never see it in any options menus.

Its in the graphics options of a few modern game (increasingly so) like Farcry, Serious Sam 2, CoD 2 etc...

However people usually activate it through the drivers which you access via your desktop - display properties/settings/advanced.

From there you get to your GPU's drivers and things will look different depending on what make of card your using.

For me, its that very compulsion to mess with the graphics settings that makes PC gaming more interesting than console gaming. If your brains telling you to mess with the settings when you don't have to then you must be getting some pleaseure from it ;-)

 

[London Geezer]

Yeah, but you've got to keep with the times, because this stuff just accelerates. Back in 1997, I knew just about everything about everything about those raycasting engines and the latest, polygoniest technology. I took a hiatus for a couple years, came back, and now I'm in over my head. It's like you have to be disciplined about it, at which point for me it's more work than it is fun. There's definitely a barrier to entry with PC gaming that just gets higher every year.

Yeah i know what you mean. If you keep out of the loop for even a year, there are always so many new things to learn...

 

[Pozer]

Local EB had a 360 koisk setup. I watched some meathead play COD2 for 10 mins. I was impressed at the quality and the framerate. I thought it looked beautifu especially for a rushed PC-port launch game. especiall compared to the performance of the demo running on a high-end PC. The gun textures looked alot better than the PC demo. I didn't notice that many jaggies at all. Enviro textures ranged from good to awsome. I guess thats the 512 ram limitation though. Framerate really was super smooth. Colors looked very vibrant on that samsung lcd.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Local EB had a 360 koisk setup. I watched some meathead play COD2 for 10 mins. I was impressed at the quality and the framerate. I thought it looked beautifu especially for a rushed PC-port launch game. especiall compared to the performance of the demo running on a high-end PC. The gun textures looked alot better than the PC demo. I didn't notice that many jaggies at all. Enviro textures ranged from good to awsome. I guess thats the 512 ram limitation though. Framerate really was super smooth. Colors looked very vibrant on that samsung lcd.

The performance on the optimized final PC version running at 720p could easily exceed 100fps on a top end PC (Xfire X1800XT) with FSAA and AF.

Thats well in excess of the X360's 60fps.

 

[czekon]

The performance on the optimized final PC version running at 720p could easily exceed 100fps on a top end PC (Xfire X1800XT) with FSAA and AF.

Thats well in excess of the X360's 60fps.

not so sure

The unfortunate thing is that the game can chug very badly in some key spots, reducing frame rate to 15 or less. For the most part, it ran well on our primary test system, a Pentium 4 2.4GHz with 1GB of RAM and a GeForce 6800 OC with 128MB.

 

[London Geezer]

Well that's the usual problem with PC games, there is a MUCH lesser focus on having stable framerates than on consoles. A PC game can go from 150fps to 15fps easily. On consoles that's just not acceptable.

 

[Arun]

128MB videocard, duh.
Anything else that doesn't seem obvious? heh.

Uttar