Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation

[bbot]

Based on VGLeaks? I know others have claimed that they've seen the docs, but the only explicit evidence I have seen:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...ioGIAQ&usg=AFQjCNHbnml9jnR2DhH63G_byOAVNMo6xg

 

[Sonic]

It's quite possible MS has been involved in numerous designs for their new console and it's not too far fetched to think such a beast of an APU may have been considered by MS at some point. But it also would be extremely expensive and reminds me of the version of CELL that would have 4 Power cores and 8 SPE's each. Too cost prohibitive for a console at the time of launch. I don't see a point where MS is running scared and decides to eat a big loss in order to gain technical dominance. That type of business model is no longer feasible.

The actual Durango is something that should be an efficient beast and I'm looking forward to the results that come from it. If esram makes graphical functions all the more efficient it could very well end up being like what edram was to PS2. The DME's are intriguing and want to see how they allow for better performance. I trust MS knows what they're doing with their system. For me they got it right their first two times.

 

[Brimstone]

No, because devs working with devkits now have a 1.2 TF GCN APU with eSRAM. If the intention was a powerhouse as far back as that alpha kit, why has MS gimped their developers with such low performance compared to what the console is actually going to have? It could only be true if the existing devkits with their custom APU hardware, which needed full design and manufacture, is just an elaborate cover-story.

1.2TF would be xbox tv

20nm would be full blown exodus level hardware.


xbox tv is on hold.

 

[Lycan]

No, because devs working with devkits now have a 1.2 TF GCN APU with eSRAM. If the intention was a powerhouse as far back as that alpha kit, why has MS gimped their developers with such low performance compared to what the console is actually going to have? It could only be true if the existing devkits with their custom APU hardware, which needed full design and manufacture, is just an elaborate cover-story.

Not to doubt you Shifty but it was my understanding that the figures you mention (1.2 TF and eSRAM) are simply the ones provided by VGLEAKS. The specs haven't been, to my knowledge at least, confirmed by developers. And for good reason!

 

[liquidboy]

No, because devs working with devkits now have a 1.2 TF GCN APU with eSRAM. If the intention was a powerhouse as far back as that alpha kit, why has MS gimped their developers with such low performance compared to what the console is actually going to have? It could only be true if the existing devkits with their custom APU hardware, which needed full design and manufacture, is just an elaborate cover-story.

For $500 MS can fit a huge amount of tech in a consule, more than what ShiftyGeezer is alluding too! ....

Loot at what MS were able to deliver in SurfaceRT at it's price point....

Expect a beast in 12 days , more than 1.2TF (not that TF's matter in this day and age) !

 

[the ugly cat]

For $500 MS can fit a huge amount of tech in a consule, more than what ShiftyGeezer is alluding too! ....

Loot at what MS were able to deliver in SurfaceRT at it's price point....

Expect a beast in 12 days , more than 1.2TF (not that TF's matter in this day and age) !

I agree!!! I think people are reading way to much into a year old document provided by a hacker (Super Dae). No one has confirmed the specs!!! I think the new xbox will be a beast that will surprise alot of people especially if the rumor of 500.00 dollars is true.

(Never under estimate an opponent) Bruce Lee

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

For $500 MS can fit a huge amount of tech in a consule, more than what ShiftyGeezer is alluding too! ....

Loot at what MS were able to deliver in SurfaceRT at it's price point....

Expect a beast in 12 days , more than 1.2TF (not that TF's matter in this day and age) !

the surface rt. I have one. It's a great product.

Thing is over priced though. Thing shouldn't of cost more then $350.

 

[GrimThorne]

It's quite possible MS has been involved in numerous designs for their new console and it's not too far fetched to think such a beast of an APU may have been considered by MS at some point. But it also would be extremely expensive and reminds me of the version of CELL that would have 4 Power cores and 8 SPE's each. Too cost prohibitive for a console at the time of launch. I don't see a point where MS is running scared and decides to eat a big loss in order to gain technical dominance. That type of business model is no longer feasible.

Oh really? No longer feasible? Okay pushing aside the specs for this diagram for just a moment.

Now I know exactly what you meant when you made this statement, but I think it's worth noting that this is done with mobile phones ALL THE TIME. People walk out the store with a $600-$800 phone for the price of a mere two year contract. That type of model sits at the top of all business models right now, a 6 billion global subscriber industry. And isn't it rumored that Microsoft is adopting this model for it's next gen console?

When you consider games, apps and other services, it could be very lucrative. For MS it's already worth $3 billion a year in LIVE subscriptions alone. There's absolutely no reason why they couldn't extend this model as a console entry fee. And we're probably going to see it happen anyway.

Its what mistercteam and misterxmedia have been saying all along.. that Durango have been working towards this goal, they have the right minds at MS that could solve the problem of making this work in a console system..

Well let's not go to wonderland with those two just yet. But I can't deny, this is exactly what mistercteam has been talking about. Gawd, to think in 10 days I might actually owe this guy an apology. LOL!

I flipped the image over on it's side to get a better look at it, This is definitely AMD's tech, but I've never seen them use a diagram designed like THIS before. This can't be VI as some people have been claiming though. It has DDR3, not DDR5. AMD would not be scaling back bandwidth for Hawaii or Curacao. And then you have a security co-processor? Very curious.

 

[temesgen]

I can't help but wonder if the the reveal on the 21st which is likely to present specs inline with the leaks we are all familiar with will be characterized as part of the cover-up... I'm anticipating some saying MS can't do a true reveal until PS4 is in the marketplace hence making it impossible to change. Once that happens MS and their team of programers will show their 4TF monster along with Gears 4 and Halo X....

Seriously some of you should consider a future in talk radio or political blogging.

 

[rockaman]

You seem to be suggesting that talk radio or political blogging is about misleading people...

 

[Betanumerical]

I can't help but wonder if the the reveal on the 21st which is likely to present specs inline with the leaks we are all familiar with will be characterized as part of the cover-up... I'm anticipating some saying MS can't do a true reveal until PS4 is in the marketplace hence making it impossible to change. Once that happens MS and their team of programers will show their 4TF monster along with Gears 4 and Halo X....

Seriously some of you should consider a future in talk radio or political blogging.

Even if the specs are completely revealed multiple times there will be talks of how you cannot compare them because of X, or that they haven't really shown the power of Y yet. All this talk and the way it is happening seriously feels like the PS3 last gen.

 

[temesgen]

Even if the specs are completely revealed multiple times there will be talks of how you cannot compare them because of X, or that they haven't really shown the power of Y yet. All this talk and the way it is happening seriously feels like the PS3 last gen.

I am confident that both MS and Sony will have very well thought out business models that fit into their vision and long term strategy. From what we know the hardware decisions seem perfectly acceptable to me, the machines appear to be reasonably balanced in terms of computational and graphical power and should be available at reasonable price points.

I am little curious about 3rd parties and their approach this next generation, in many ways it reminds me of the line in Karate Kid "walk on this side side ok (low cost, highly innovative, social gaming), walk on this side ok ( Hollywood budget, big explosions, story and character development) but walk in the middle crushed like grape....".

 

[temesgen]

You seem to be suggesting that talk radio or political blogging is about misleading people...

maybe it is still too early to call Ohio....

 

[RudeCurve]

Maybe that diagram is for the Durango V2 refresh? Forwards compatibility?

 

[Betanumerical]

Maybe that diagram is for the Durango V2 refresh? Forwards compatibility?

The diagram on the previous page is a fake Volcano diagram, its been discussed in the AMD 9xxxx/8xxxx (cannot remember which one) thread in the GPU forums.

 

[Brimstone]

I flipped the image over on it's side to get a better look at it, This is definitely AMD's tech, but I've never seen them use a diagram designed like THIS before. This can't be VI as some people have been claiming though. It has DDR3, not DDR5. AMD would not be scaling back bandwidth for Hawaii or Curacao. And then you have a security co-processor? Very curious.

Well there is another ddr3...stacked ddr3 (Hybrid Memory Cube).

This mysterious diagram and HMC for bandwidth would be interesting.

 

[3dcgi]

can Infinity/ps4 be similar to intel/amd when coming to gp-gpu computing?
take an Intel’s Core i7-3770k and AMD’s A10-5800k, the intel have a weak HD4000 as gpu and amd a much stronger HD7660, this AMD gpu have more than double the Flops when compared to intel gpu, Intel’s HD 4000 has 16 EUs and AMD’s HD 7660D has 384 VLIW4 cores arranged into six groups

but

even if it's weaker, the HD 4000 can use the i7-3770k’s eight megabyte L3 cache to improve its performance.

results: the HD4000 is a best performer, in some cases really outperform HD7660

I'm believing that low-latency eSram can do the same thing as the L3 cache on the i7.

This is only for GP-GPU, not for general 3D, of course

This isn't only GPGPU. The last benchmark, the one that puts Intel ahead of AMD, involves the CPU. Remove that and it's a dead heat with AMD being 0.5% faster.

 

[Cyan]

Maybe that diagram is for the Durango V2 refresh? Forwards compatibility?

Too many questions still lingering in the air. This article could be a nice reminder of what to expect, perhaps.

Digital Foundry and their staff, hint at the HD 7790 Bonaire XT being the GPU in the Durango's roadmap, for whom some of their technological similarities seem to have significance.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-radeon-hd-7790-review

 

[Rangers]

I can't help but wonder if the the reveal on the 21st which is likely to present specs inline with the leaks we are all familiar with will be characterized as part of the cover-up... I'm anticipating some saying MS can't do a true reveal until PS4 is in the marketplace hence making it impossible to change. Once that happens MS and their team of programers will show their 4TF monster along with Gears 4 and Halo X....

Seriously some of you should consider a future in talk radio or political blogging.

well hell, the wii crowd is now floating a rumor that nintendo upclocked the cpu from 1.2 to 3.2 in a firmware update. so even 6 months after release isn't too late!

i'm pretty sure we'll get some sort of spec upgrade for durango on the 21st though. makes too much sense not too. not a major change but clock increase and/or drop-in ram increase.

 

[dagamer]

the surface rt. I have one. It's a great product.

Thing is over priced though. Thing shouldn't of cost more then $350.

$499 worth $284 worth of parts, not including R&D and such: http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/Ne...able-than-iPad-Teardown-Analysis-Reveals.aspx

A margin of 10-20% when all is said and done is only average really. Plus there's the Windows and Office licenses (note, those are not "free" even to Microsoft because of accounting rules).

If you're comparing the price of the device to an iPad, what you're missing is the huge advantage Apple has in it's supply chains. When you make tens of millions of devices per quarter (because you know you are going to sell them), you get much better bulk order pricing. Plus, they also own some of their equipment used in CNC'ing the aluminum, again, making manufacturing cheaper.

Apple's been at this FAR longer, and it shows. If Microsoft really wants to compete, they need to bring their A game.