Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Love_In_Rio, Jan 21, 2013.

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  1. Love_In_Rio

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  2. DieH@rd

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    [​IMG]

    No 386bit memory, no GDDR5, no dual APU, no 4 layer bluray, no 64MB ES/ED RAM... fanboy dreams are crashing down.

    But, it has HDMI IN.
     
  3. Shifty Geezer

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    32 MBs eDRAM seems little anaemic. Also suggests ROPs aren't on the eDRAM, meaning 170 GBs effective total BW to GPU. And CPU can access eDRAM via northbridge?

    What are the Data Move Engines? Those accelerators aren't connected by any arrows to the processors or memory, so it looks like they're orphan silicon!
     
  4. Love_In_Rio

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    Data move engines... the blitter strikes back?.
     
  5. BRiT

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    ¿Why would Kinect have its own bus instead of using USB 3?

    Seems very odd.

    At least it'll be able to play blurays.
     
  6. McHuj

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    I would guess simple DMA's that can just move the ESRAM to/from main memory.
     
  7. DieH@rd

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    Maybe they want to connect it to thunderbolt and get very large bandwith. How much power can one thunderbolt cable carry? Maybe they dont want power cable for Kinect 2.
     
  8. function

    function None functional
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    Hopefully they can perform high quality scales on anything they transfer, for free.

    On the bright side, at least it's got a HDD attached all the time and Kinect 2 is going to be a standard feature.
     
  9. Hornet

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    I wonder if forum members with game development experience would rather have
    1) 32 MB of read/write ESRAM with 102.4 GB/s bandwidth (ROPs use compression)
    2) 32 MB ESRAM + compression-less ROPs, with massive internal bandwidth, 102.4 GB/s to the rest of the GPU

    My understanding is that in the first setup, you could:
    - render into two 1920x1080 render targets without MSAA (32 bit color + 32 bit depth, total ~32 MB used)
    - discard the depth buffers (~16 MB used)
    - render into the final render target (also 1920x1080 without MSAA, ~16 MB) texturing from the first two render targets
    Of course in the last step the 102.4 GB/s are used for both texture reads and framebuffer operations.
    However, with 2xMSAA you could only fit a single render target, so the second setup seems better than the first one (at least the ROPs have more bandwidth).
     
  10. McHuj

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    I really hope the ESRAM contains the ROPs and addition logic with very high internal bandwidth like the 360 setup and isn't just a scratch pad.
     
  11. deanos

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    So tell me Ranger, which one of the floating purple blocks of silicon is supposed to be the magic one?
     
  12. Hornet

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    By the way, this is not going to be more than 250 mm^2, in my opinion.
    - 8xJaguar: ~25 mm^2
    - 4 MB cache: ~20 mm^2 *
    - 32 MB ESRAM: ~20 mm^2 **
    - GPU similar to Cape Verde: 123 mm^2
    Difference in memory interface (256 bit versus 128 bit for Cape Verde): 20 mm^2 ***

    This amounts to 208 mm^2. Even accounting for the remaining components, I don't see it exceeding 250 mm^2. Given the low cost of DDR3, the console is likely going to be pretty cheap.

    * Rough estimate based on Trinity die, accounting for 32 nm to 28 nm transition)
    ** Assuming 1T-SRAM, scaling Wikipedia density at 45 nm to 28 nm
    *** Rough estimate based on the 128-bit interface in the Trinity die, assuming the 128-bit GDDR5 interface is of similar size.
     
  13. Bagel seed

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    So would the data move engine allow tiling to become more feasible compared to 360?
     
  14. Averagejoe

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    Few questions..

    1)1.2 TF probably about a 7770 GHZ edition.?
    2)Could other non gaming fusions draw resources from the GPU,while gaming.? Example surface streaming.?
     
  15. MrFox

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    I don't see anything new here, it looks like a consolidation of the latest rumors being talked about here, is there anything that makes vgleaks a more reliable source?

    They call it a data move engine, that sounds closer to the cell's DMA engine, not the amiga blitter/copper. I still wonder if it can do "something" while it moves data.
     
  16. Arwin

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    Obviously the Blitter / Data Move Engine! (I'm only half joking - it's very 'mysterious')

    This layout looks very much like the 360, doesn't it? (GPU / North Bridge master of all memory again) And in that sense, the availability of the 32MB ESRAM could be already just for backwards compatibility alone (but still be more useful). Kinect on a separate bus makes sense as in the 360 Kinect couldn't get enough bandwidth (remember that if you hooked it up to PC, you got twice the bandwidth), due to a shared USB chipset. Of course this owuldn't be necessary initially because USB 3.0 can handle more, but if in future they would support 3.0 USB memory cards for storage as they did for the 360 this gen, then that could start eating up bandwidth and still cause issues. So much safer to give this its own port, and perhaps a type of connection that gives the lowest level of lag etc.

    I am assuming that the three purple blocks are connecting to both CPU and GPU, though not sure. Right now we don't know how they connect to the rest, if not directly to the north-bridge.

    This still gives very little information, even if true.
     
  17. Hornet

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    Agreed (but I would like a developer's opinion on this). A scratch pad would probably be useful in general, but 102 GB/s doesn't make sense for a scratch pad you have to read/write from, provided how cheap it would have been to provide a faster interface to on-chip memory. The only setup in which 102 GB/s make sense is a Xenos-like setup, IMHO.
     
  18. McHuj

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    My guess that the rumors aren't really offering that much more in terms of new stuff (although this one does have some minor bits) is because this is what the console is and pretty much everything has leaked.
     
  19. babcat

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    If this is accurate and the PS4 has a discrete GPU in addition to the APU, then the PS4 will win the next console generation.
     
  20. Rangers

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    lol no idea. lately i've been downplaying the magic blocks anyway. i dont know what they are but rumblings (well, supposedly the blitter wannabe, fixed function somethings, and audio chip) that theyre nothing paradigm changing.

    as much as i defend "our" rumors and all, still 1% of me thinks "hey, maybe somebody made this spiffy schematic up based on the B3D/Neogaf rumors". But yeah I imagine it's legit.

    Edit: also, wasn't the GPU 1.228 TF's or something, super precisely? Anybody confirm/remember? The text says exactly 1.2, could it be any clue of possible fakeness?
     
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