Xbox 360 price drops by $50
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eh. In blind tests of typical cable runs of decent quality, I'm sure nobody here would be able to tell the difference (aside from color calibration issues).
Most people that are running their HD displays also have a Reciever which will run component through HDMI, thus the necesity of it's inclusion is a bit ... questionable.
The only real benefit is on longer runs (which can be expensive for hdmi) or movie studios imposing the standard for copy protection.
Dolby HD for movies is another, but honestly, who's running such a setup through a game box?
I'm not.
Component/vga is indistinguishable for games 99% of the time.
That may also explain the reason why it seems cores are being reported as 'discontinued', it may just be the existing core SKU thats going away.
On a more esoteric note, i wonder if the newer HDMI implementation has the requisite bandwidth for 5.1 PCM instead of the 2 channel of the current elite...
I'd prefer one HDMI cable from my devices to my receiver and one HDMI from my receiver to my TV. VGA is fine, but now I have to go around the receiver or I can use component and lose 1080P upscaling for DVDs. Don't forget an extra optical cable per device for sound. So your "only real benefit" is not really the only benefit.
I also like thing like PCM sound for movies and games, something a VGA+optical isn't going to get me.
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The difference between my 360 on component and my PS3 on an Epson (EMP TW700) projector is like night and day... What is lost (mostly) on my setup is contrast were the PS3 hdmi wins hands down...
If all 360 skus start being available with an hdmi port then I’ll be very tempted to either fry my own (and cross my fingers for the replacement to be a new sku) or sell it and buy a new one.
If all 360 skus start being available with an hdmi port then I’ll be very tempted to either fry my own (and cross my fingers for the replacement to be a new sku) or sell it and buy a new one.
I think you mistook my post as being one that compared component to HDMI; it wasn't. I was simply stating the fact that HDMi is becoming increasingly important in the display space, which it is. It's not a statement to its quality.
Anyway guys let's not have the thread be totally subsumed by HDMI discussion, y'know?
Are we sure about premium's "profit" margin being higher than core's?
It has wireless controller, headset and 20 gb HD, right?
I don't know if you noticed but Rock Band preorders list wireless 360 guitar at a $20 higher price than PS3 version, a difference generally attributed to proprietary wireless technology license cost.
I also don't know how much the low volume $99 non-standard harddrive actually costs.
The cost difference between Premium and Core may very well be higher than $70.
Betan, no - there's just no way. Note also that the "licensing" premium being paid for any wireless guitar on 360 would be going straight to Microsoft, not some removed 3rd party. I'm not seeing $70 worth of difference between the Core and the Premium; I maintain the the higher margin on the premium has simply come down relative to the core.
I'd say becoming more widely adopted for sure. But I wouldn't say it's importance is any greater today than it was yesterday.
Agreed though, let's not steer this completely off course.
Also agreed on your original point that cost shouldn't be a prohibiting factor on all but the cheapest sku for xb360.
The biggest threat to MS is that ridiculous Elite sku.
If the top end model was the 349 premium, theyd just be in so much better shape.
It was stated on 1up yours this week that the best selling 360 sku according to retailers, at least in relation to the allocations they get, is the Elite. I already knew that, but most people probably dont.
I really fear that will become the default sku once stock catches up. Why not? Joe Sixpack are scared to be stuck with the second best sku. Afraid they'll make a mistake.
I was asked recently what the difference is between Elite and Premium. The fact I was asked speaks volumes. Average people dont really have any clue what the differences are. Anyways, that guy was going to buy a PS3 for 499. Now he'll probably get an Elite at 449. To him there's no major difference in prices of the two consoles. Both are essentially $500 propositions. That's what MS has created with the Elite.
And they're too greedy to change, because I'm sure they love selling those 449 elites with great margins.
The one thing I hate about the premium is the 20GB is just too little. They really need to find the sweet spot in >20GB HDD pricing if possible, whether that be 40 or 60GB or whatever, even when it costs them a few extra bucks, put that in the premium, and drop the stupid elite forever. Say, 40GB premium and Core sku's and that's it.
But one thing I think most people continue to ignore in their doom and gloom comments is the possibility of a second price cut from MS this year, which personally I think is a real one.
I can imagine MS failure rates sky-rocketing! Shouldn't be hard to cause a deliberate fault without it being provable.
As for one $50 price-drop now, and one at Christmas, has there ever been a machine have two small drops in quick succession like that? They run the risk of annoying a lot of folk who'd have been happy to wait a few months for another $50 price drop. Not that that really matters. Sony are getting some stick from people who bought a PS3 just before the bundle appeared - people will always complain if they think things are unfair. Still, I'm just curious if it's something anyone's tried before, as I don't remember similar.
Besides the fact this topic of killing one's 360 for a replacement has been coming up a lot on B3D lately, and I kinda feel these people need to be admonished for essentialy stealing, it's also sort of ironic that after all the griping about how unreliable 360 is, now the questions seems to be how can I kill it !. And do I note a hint of glee in Shifty's proposition of "skyrocketing failure rates"?
Cue the angry post about how ms OWES me a new model because HDMI and 65nm CPU is every American's right. Save it.
To me the bigger concern is that people may see it as a falling rock (value-wise). Thus, they may say to themselves, "well, I'll wait for the price to stabalize" or "why is the price dropping so rapidly? are they dumping them for some reason?".
Either case isn't good. Consumers may then look into failure rates etc and think MS is trying to cut and run etc. or they may think another pricecut is just around the corner and freeze potential sales.
The fact it wasn't even a $50 price cut across the board just makes this whole thing even more pathetic.
BTW - I hope I'm not interprited as "doom and gloom" on xb360. I'm not. I still think MS will continue to have a great product in this fight and will do well. My comments are more frustration from a missed opportunity than anything else. Also, I'd say I'm genuinely surprised that Sony will be able to shave $200 off the BOM from now till the end of the year. That is shocking and I didn't figure such aggressive cost savings would be in the cards for ps3.
Counter such aggressive cost savings with such a lax attitude by MS and you have what amounts to yelling at the screen for the stupid girl in the scary flick to turn around and avoid being killed by the crazy axe murderer... only to see her do the exact stupid thing you feared (but knew) would happen.
MS has it own proprietary wireless standard. If MS licensed it from some third party with huge fees, then why not use something like bluetooth.
A non standard harddrive doesn't automatically come at a high cost. It appears in all Premiums and there is enough standalone supply to cover virtually all Cores, which puts HDD production in the neighborhood of 10-12 million.
There are external 20Gb HDDs with custom packaging at NewEgg that go for $40-$50. Remove the profits margins built in for the retailer and distributor and account for the fact that million+ orders give MS huge purchasing power and one could surmise that those HDDs cost MS in the neigborhodd of $20-30 a unit.
When considering that MS is buying million of each peripheral directly from the manufacturer, you can figure out that MS is paying no where near the $100 premium for those peripherals bundled in their Premium sku.
That's a possibility. IMO multiple small cuts perhaps ought to be announced in advance to let buyers choose their own price range and evade any negative conjecture. Although I don't think that'll matter. If the price drops 'too' quickly, are people going to stop buying the machine when everything else about it is very healthy? Or are they going to say 'wow, now I can afford one!'? Or will, as you say, buyers say 'we'll wait another 5 months and see if the price drops' and then 5 months later say 'well, it can't be long for a drop now, so we'll just put off...' Do most console buyers, especially in the price range MS will be entering, even entertain such thoughts?! Thinking of myself, I can't recall any goods I've purchased where I've thought about waiting for a price drop. Drops happen, but I don't consider them, other than 'I'll wait til things are cheaper.' The only exception I can recall is consoles and PSP, where I was (or am) waiting for the prices to drop because I know it's going to happen. Consoles are unique in have such long lifespans. Any other device, the price won't drop but the features will change in the new improved model.
Well, MS' drives are probably more than that ($20-30), to be fair. Those Newegg 20GB drives are 1.8" hard drives - where 20GB is a 'standard' size. On a 2.5" drive like the 360 uses, I would expect it to cost more. Not Betan's numbers, but more than an equivalant 1.8" 20GB.
Depends on the tech and the field.
see:
VCR's
DVD players
Monitors
HD optical players
etc.
All of which got cheaper ... and some also increased the feature-set at the same time.
Regarding consumer behavior... I generally have price points I target desireables at and when the price is in range, I reevaluate and see if it is still a good choice and if my desire is still the same. Some things may come into play prior to this value setting, such as components which rely on said desired component that may influence me to pull the trigger sooner than anticipated. Competition steering me in their direction. Or competition steering me in my original direction but causing me to pull the trigger faster than I would have without said competition. (odd scenario, but that is exactly what happened with me @ e3 2006 when ps3's price was announced... I knew MS wasn't going to drop the price that year so I picked up the 360 the same day instead of waiting for a pricedrop)
If one were to ask me right now when they should get a xb360, I'd tell them to wait for the real price drop as currently, the machine is overpriced. 65nm should be $200 for the core and $300 for the premium. If they can't wait til after Christmas, I'd say buy one now as the price is unlikely to drop beforehand and if it does, it will be impossible to find one in stock.
Canadian prices
http://www.xbox.com/en-ca/community/news/2007/0806-consoleprice.htm
Core -> $299.99 (-$100)
Premium ->$399.99 (-$100)
Halo 3 -> $449.99
Elite -> $499.99 (-$50)
Considering the CAD <-> USD exchange rate, it's certainly nicer than before.
http://www.xbox.com/en-ca/community/news/2007/0806-consoleprice.htm
Core -> $299.99 (-$100)
Premium ->$399.99 (-$100)
Halo 3 -> $449.99
Elite -> $499.99 (-$50)
Considering the CAD <-> USD exchange rate, it's certainly nicer than before.
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