WOW crazy new Kameo pics

[London Geezer]

Ahhh, you mean it's a problem with the Magical Wigglytrons. Now I see...

Yeah. I might be completely off course, but i thnk it has to do with the fact that on some GPUs AA gets applied right after you can get a screen dump, meaning that you're playing with AA but the screen grabs never make it "in time" to get the AAed screen.

Or something like that.

 

[Acert93]

Ain't that the truth! I've seen too many next-gen shots to like current gen anymore . It reminds me of PS1 to PS2. There were some games on PS1 that looked fandabadoozee, until you play some PS2 games and then poor old PS1 looked dire. I'm looking at some current-gen stuff and feeling like it's time to move on. I think the low-res jaggies it what does it mostly. Some current gem promo shots looks great, but they're all stupidly antialiased unlike the real games. This is why I'd really like improvements in backwards compatibility. Being able to up the IQ on current gen games would be oh-so-sweet!

Been like that for me ever since about... somewhere between CoD and FarCry. So over a year

Even worse is I became a Desert Combat (BF1942) addict. I could suffer through the graphics because they were clean, and at 1600x1200 with AA/AF those HUGE maps were just sooooo much fun. Then came my temporary HL2/CS:S addiction. I think CS:S is what really did it though... Play de_port and then try to play Halo, TimeSplitters, etc... just not possible... I am a snob <sob sob>

But seriously, I am hoping the backwards compatibility cleans them up to... because many older games have WAY better gameplay. So cleaning up the graphics, mainly filtering and AA, makes them a lot more enjoyable.

 

[Lysander]

Game visuals are ace, it has unusual art and there are some shading problems (creators said they did not shadow all monsters just those in close proximity) and it is not photorealism (more like pixar stuff). This, I think, looks real next-gen. And it is over pd0 (for now)

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Just out of curiousity, how come so many of you decided in the "Will Consoles Overtake PCs" thread, that the consoles were going to be far better than the PC, kill off PC gaming, etc.. etc...

And yet, here, you talk about how you're all PC FPS snobs and how this generation of console games suck so badly that people shouldn't be expecting the world on the next generation?

Which is it? Is the PC so incredibly advanced right now that people's expectations for the Next Gen of consoles is too high? Or will Consoles kill PC gaming because consoles are 'closed systems' and yada yada yada?

The two views seem contradictory, to me.

 

[Acert93]

Just out of curiousity, how come so many of you decided in the "Will Consoles Overtake PCs" thread, that the consoles were going to be far better than the PC, kill off PC gaming, etc.. etc...

I really should weigh in on that thread. Have not even read it yet. But my position on the PC is not too short... oh wait, how is that different than anything else? In a nutshell the PC will evolve. It always does. The fact WoW and BF2 are doing so well in the market--and have no comparable experience on the consoles--is just proof of that. I love the consoles, and PCs are dang expensive, but I do so much enjoy them!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

And yet, here, you talk about how you're all PC FPS snobs and how this generation of console games suck so badly that people shouldn't be expecting the world on the next generation?

Idon't like FPS's! The only PC game I play ATM is GW. And I've said before compare one of my top PS2 games, CON, with the similarly style d Dungeon Siege II, and the outdated console is vastly better looing

 

[c0_re]

Idon't like FPS's! The only PC game I play ATM is GW. And I've said before compare one of my top PS2 games, CON, with the similarly style d Dungeon Siege II, and the outdated console is vastly better looing

If Xbox\PS2 could output at 720p with AA teh difference wouldn't nearly as noticable, playing games at 480p on consoles is horrible to watch after playing games like HL2 on a nice video card and monitor.

 

[Serenity Painted Death]

The problem with Kameo, graphically, is that when there are more than a few characters on screen, it looks like trash. However, when it is just Kameo or a very small number of objects, it looks stunning. Something has to give.

For example, compare the second pic of the first post to the fourth pic of the first post... ugh, those hardly look like the same game.

 

[Master-Mold]

The problem with Kameo, graphically, is that when there are more than a few characters on screen, it looks like trash. However, when it is just Kameo or a very small number of objects, it looks stunning. Something has to give.

For example, compare the second pic of the first post to the fourth pic of the first post... ugh, those hardly look like the same game.

Just stop looking at those pics. The game looks nothing like that in motion. If you download the high quality "Troll Army" video you will see the only thing that changes is the proximity of the character shadows that appear.

One of the best videos out there is the 3 way battle scene with the Dragons, Trolls, and Elves. It looks better than anything else from Kameo and has 3000+ on screen.

 

[two]

jaggies, jaggies and more jaggies.

 

[London Geezer]

One of the best videos out there is the 3 way battle scene with the Dragons, Trolls, and Elves. It looks better than anything else from Kameo and has 3000+ on screen.

Hardly. The fact that they all moved exactly the same way spoiled the whole scene. So much for "individual AI"...
It was impressive to have that many charactrers on screen, but when the whole thing looks like a caleidoscope (= same thing shown hundreds of times), the novelty fades fast...

 

[Platon]

Being a launch title and being made for most of the time with xbox1 in mind I think that this game simply looks extremely beautifull. No doubt though, if there is a Kameo2 comming on the xbox360 and then made from ground up on the system it will look much better...

 

[Qroach]

The fact that they all moved exactly the same way spoiled the whole scene. So much for "individual AI"...

Since when does animation playback have anything to do with individual AI?

 

[Master-Mold]

Hardly. The fact that they all moved exactly the same way spoiled the whole scene. So much for "individual AI"...
It was impressive to have that many charactrers on screen, but when the whole thing looks like a caleidoscope (= same thing shown hundreds of times), the novelty fades fast...

Never did I mention AI.

This thread has been about those pics and why they look so poor/jaggy. I am simply saying that scene is impressive considering the quality of the visuals and it is far more an indicator of the games visual fidelity not some awful looking screens.

I was particularly impressed by the huge trolls, the exceptional looking Dragons flying around, and the big troop transport. Add in about 3K other trolls/elves and some nice scenery and its easy to make a judgement on the games quality visuals.

 

[Azrael]

Never did I mention AI.

This thread has been about those pics and why they look so poor/jaggy. I am simply saying that scene is impressive considering the quality of the visuals and it is far more an indicator of the games visual fidelity not some awful looking screens.

I was particularly impressed by the huge trolls, the exceptional looking Dragons flying around, and the big troop transport. Add in about 3K other trolls/elves and some nice scenery and its easy to make a judgement on the games quality visuals.

Yes, you see what happened here is you made a strong point that was hard to refute so he had to divert the argument to the AI. This is a common practice in arguments where one party refuses to concede any ground.

 

[London Geezer]

Yes, you see what happened here is you made a strong point that was hard to refute so he had to divert the argument to the AI. This is a common practice in arguments where one party refuses to concede any ground.

Sure. As if i've been bashing the game till now...

I welcome you to the red-square club. Enjoy your stay.

 

[Acert93]

Since when does animation playback have anything to do with individual AI?

Depending no how the AI is working, you would not expect 3,000 creatures with "individual AI" to be completely synced.

In the videos you can see how there are basically 3 or 4 "sets" of creatures and they are all doing the same thing. The same loop, just at different interval.

I have not seen enough of the fight scene to know if this is true for after they rush down the mountain.

They could each have fairly simply AI and the animation be synced based on more of a rock-paper-scissors type method. e.g. The AI could each have variable outcomes--each AI is independant and wins/loses/draws independantly, but within a certain sequence of events there is only a number of precanned animations. If you win you do one of three animations, you lose you do one of three animations, and if it is a draw you do one of three animations. These are all looped at intervals with different AI groups staggered. So the fighting animation can be something like

Lose animation 1, 2, or 3
Draw animation 1, 2, or 3
Win animation 1, 2, or 3

This way you would have a fairly simple AI with a predetermined numbers of animation loops. So the AI could be individual and just be limited by a limited number of repeating animation loops dependant on the outcome of the AI interaction.

So you get individual AI, but you also get quite a few repeated animations.

That is my guess of what is happening. Of course it could be a couple dozen trolls/elves that are just instanced, but that kind of goes against what they said about each having their own AI.

 

[Qroach]

Depending no how the AI is working, you would not expect 3,000 creatures with "individual AI" to be completely synced.

you know it's possible that they wanted all these characters to look in sync, or that it was simply a bug... It doesn't necessarily mean that these characters lack "individual AI" it could simply mean all the characters are sitting in the same state at that moment in time (idle, attack, whatever) and the state is what drives the animation being played.

In the videos you can see how there are basically 3 or 4 "sets" of creatures and they are all doing the same thing. The same loop, just at different interval.

Imo, that's an animation issue with not having enough different animations to play back. Think about it for a moment. you have 3000 characters on screen, a limited amout of character animations with each animation having a specific number of frames. Simply put, your going to get a lot of characters appearing to be in sync due to the limited number of frames in the animation and the limited number of animations you can have in memory.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If I remember that vid correctly, when a number of ogres jumped or raised their arms or whatever they did, they all started at exactly the same time. I would instead expect individual AI to cause them to start their jumping/arm waving at different times, even if their share the same animation keyframes. The fact that groupd were operating perfrectly in sync shows choices in behaviour or movement were exactly in sync. However, that could just be because the AI is polled uniformly and given a finite number of responses, you'd get characters doing the same thing at the same time. If so it shouldn't be too hard to add some random timing differences between activites that'd introduce 'chaos' to the mix and break up this obvious blocks of animation.

I certainly found that animation very offputting. It instantly grabbed my attention.

 

[Acert93]

Why Kameo is not getting more attention I dunno... WHY it is not being discussed on the front page I cannot image.

The game has absolutely great art direction and has really pulled together well. Seems like they made the right design goals for their rendering engine and art direction.

Xboxyde.com notes that a lot of new small graphical touches have been added to the build they played at X05.

Materialized during the night on the top of Blimblim's magical hat, here is a new (huge) Kameo video, even more beautiful than the TGS build we last saw. The added effects are minor (depth of field, self-shadowing), but seeing a studio taking care of its game since the last minutes of developement is always a good news. This video showcases exclusive and never seen before sequences, as this battle against the big Afro-Tree boss.

http://xboxyde.com/news_2099_en.html

This has been my darkhorse. My only hope is that IF it turns out as good as it sounds that it sells well, REALLY well. It is a crying shame when these really good games don't sell well. Unique titles... just not enough of them on the market.