Windows 10 [2014 - 2017]

[Deleted member 2197]

Let's take Microsoft's default commercial use of users' bandwidth to send updates to other MS users in Windows 10, for example.
Imagine if one day you noticed that your home water pressure seemed low. You search around and discover a truck parked outside that is filling its big water tank from your water system, via a hidden hose.
When confronted, the truck owners state that they didn't think they were taking all that much, and if it bothers you they'll stop.
Whether you paid for that water by the gallon or got it all flat rate, I'd wager that most people would react the same way, demanding to know: "Why the blazes didn't you ask permission first?"
To which the likely response would be: "We didn't tell you about it -- we didn't ask -- because we thought you might say no."

This is certainly not to imply that every minor user interface or operations decision must be opt-in only -- but at the very least, issues of significant magnitude must be clearly and openly spelled out in advance, not relegated to "if we're lucky most users won't notice what we did" status.
The latter course is the path to ethics hell, and no amount of free giveaways or slick talk alone can prevent a complete descent into that pit once a firm steps off the ethics precipice.
Can Microsoft still save itself from this fate? Of course, given the will. Much of what they'd need to do immediately could in theory be pushed out to Windows 10 users in a matter of days -- better explanations, asking permission, ethical defaults.
But my gut feeling says that MS is not prepared to make such a major ethical course correction at this time, and that's truly unfortunate.

http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/001117.html

 

[tabs]

Yes. Otherwise, disk cleaner won't touch the windows.old or the $windows.~bt folders at all. However, it apparently couldn't touch this particular file since it was in use for whatever reason.

Strange behaviour indeed. Mine deleted fine on the first attempt though, so probably worth trying again.

 

[Babel-17]

Yes. Otherwise, disk cleaner won't touch the windows.old or the $windows.~bt folders at all. However, it apparently couldn't touch this particular file since it was in use for whatever reason. ...WHY windows itself is running stuff out of the windows.old folder if it's targeted by termination by the OS in 30 days as stated here in this thread anyway is a complete mystery, but I assume it is because Microsoft.


You get the choice to do this during initial setup if you don't click the express option. Who here does that anyway? Anyway, why is this really a problem, do we have any data yet on how much of your connection is used for seeding updates?

I have plenty bandwidth, so I left the settings alone. It's in my own self-interest that other people patch their computers as quickly as possible, hehe...

The many marvels and mysteries of Windows, I guess. I have Indexing turned off, do you have it on? Hmm, maybe Security Essentials was doing a scan, or other maintenance was going on. Do you have System Restore enabled?

 

[Grall]

http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/001117.html

I've not yet seen any numbers at all regarding how much bandwidth W10 might use for file sharing, or if W10 file sharing indeed 'lowers the water pressure' as the blogger you quoted alleges. Maybe it only file shares while there's no other network activity?

I would personally be more concerned about this if I was on a metered internet connection; I am not. Yet this isn't a problem at all if people simply not blindly click the "Express" button during setup, and check out the fifteen or so settings given them to look at.

Of course, one might discuss the ethics of putting the choice to opt out of file sharing behind another choice (which is a much smaller text-only link/button than the aforementioned express settings button.) However, you ARE given a choice, if you just choose to take it.

This smacks me a little bit at least of a storm in a teacup, but yeah, the root issue is worth discussing, that MS is monetizing and utilizing their own customers to a much higher degree in W10 than they ever have been before. It's a little worrisome, we'll have to keep an eye on this as we continue down the road. I'm not all that worried though, because there's an entire paranoid internet out there "helping" me "watch" MS, and eagerly waiting to jump to (sometimes very) far-fetched conclusions...

 

[Deleted member 2197]

Windows 10 May Share Your Wi-Fi Password with Facebook
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/windows-10-may-share-wi-164057617.html

When Wi-Fi Sense is enabled, anyone you have in your Skype, Outlook or Hotmail contacts lists — and any of your Facebook friends — can be granted access to your Wi-Fi network as long as they're within range. Microsoft added this feature to save users' time and hassle, but as independent security blogger Brian Krebs put it, some security experts see it as "a disaster waiting to happen."
...
Wi-Fi Sense makes sense if you're visiting a friend and don't want to enter a long string of random characters to get onto his or her network. But have you pruned your contacts lists down to just the people you trust? Are all of your Facebook friends really your friends? Probably not. Most people have many contacts or Facebook friends whom they barely know — would you really trust your Wi-Fi password with your second cousin's boyfriend, or that guy in the neighborhood who once fixed your toilet?

 

[Grall]

That is a purely bad feature, it's an obvious solution looking for a problem with no redeeming values to it. I turned it off of course, even though I don't actually have any wifi hardware in my PC.

 

[rcf]

If all the stuff I read on the web about Win10 is true, then people who buy notebooks with Win10 pre-installed are under surveillance.
All this built-in spyware present in modern vendor software makes me want to install a minimal Debian or FreeBSD system, despite the inferior user experience and fewer software available.

I relayed some of Win10's privacy concerns to my relative and now she implies that she wants Win7 back...

 

[Blazkowicz]

I'm already wondering if such countries as China, Russia will ban the OS or if it will be banned for public authorities, public servants, militaries in various parts of the world.
Industrial installations are a concern too. Windows is usually the go-to OS when there is a graphical user interface involved for many a thing.
It will take time, but there will be a push for non-Windows and even non-x86.

 

[rcf]

But the worst thing is that even people who don't own Win10 or WinPhone devices get screwed.
You can't allow relatives and friends into your home wifi network anymore if they are running Win10 or WinPhone, since they could automatically share your SSID/password with their thousands of Facebook contacts. So Win10/WinPhone devices are security threats to wifi networks.

 

[Grall]

@rcf You make a poignant point, however just because the facebook friends of your family and friends gets your network details shared to them doesn't mean they know where your wifi network is, or even who you are. The risk of them getting you in trouble or deliberately screwing things up for you is likely quite minimal.

That doesn't excuse this dangerous feature of course. Same with the keylogging stuff. As @Blazkowicz said, many governments are likely to take a dim view of an OS that overtly announces it re-transmits what you type - and even handwrite. You could trust MS that they're not using your info for anything other than what they say they are, but that's not always very wise, especially in this post-Snowden world...

 

[Blazkowicz]

An easy way would be to use the semi-public hotspot if your ISP has that and provided you a new router/modem box (Comcast reportedly does in the US ; over here it's been going since a bit longer and is now widespread)

Give access to that to your guests and they will be segregated from your LAN. Windows will steal that SSID if it wants to, but there's no password. Instead you land on a web portal and you have to enter the password there.

Harder way : create a second wifi network and isolate it yourself (or use only one wifi network, but isolated and have your main computers on wired). Well, this is good practice for businesses and administrations. Outside people and even employee who don't need access to the internal LAN from their phones whatsoever will use the "public" wifi that only gives them internet or web.

 

[Blazkowicz]

@rcf You make a poignant point, however just because the facebook friends of your family and friends gets your network details shared to them doesn't mean they know where your wifi network is, or even who you are. The risk of them getting you in trouble or deliberately screwing things up for you is likely quite minimal.

Databases of wifi access points are a thing and rather easy to make. Roam the streets of a neighborhood and have a computer log the data that is by design broadcast around the router, along with GPS coordinates. Record the signal strength and you maybe have a good shot at triangulating the router's position.

 

[hoom]

Notably the Google Streetview cars were busted doing just that & when confronted were utterly unable to provide anything like a good excuse for it...

Wi-fi sense is such an incredibly stupid 'feature' I find it hard to believe it got to public release.
Same with the 'hey use a 4 digit PIN instead of your long complex password, its more secure' rubbish. (unless I'm missing some part of that where somehow 4 digits is actually more secure somehow)

 

[Grall]

Databases of wifi access points are a thing and rather easy to make.

Yes, but that doesn't mean MS is doing that. And especially not re-transmitting such information to all the facebook friends of everyone logging in on said networks. Just because you CAN do a thing doesn't mean it's happening.

...Well, it could be I guess, MS has a long history of incredibly scummy behavior, like in the mid-aughts when they had language in their shrinkwrap EULA for MSN Messenger that claimed automatic ownership of anything and everything sent through its chat network. But until there's direct evidence this is the case NOW, I think it's pretty pointless getting all worked up about what on the surface appears to be nothing...

 

[Blazkowicz]

4-digit PIN is not entirely terrible, consider that I usually use auto-login, with no BIOS password, no bootloader password (that's a thing too at least with the linux ones), no screensaver locking, the user home directory is not encrypted (nor whole main disk), and when using a laptop I configure the close lid action as "do nothing".

I suppose you get to keep your real user password? (which is probably every bit as weak or only slightly better) and a malicious program or malicious network access would have to crack that one. First defense is need for physical access (with physical access you can do anything unless the thing is severely locked down, down to bitlocker and maybe trusted platform module) and Microsoft was at the vanguard of it lol, with the famous Ctrl-Alt-Del to log on .
UAC somehow needs the user to click on? I'm not sure how it's technically done so that the malware or crapware can't just click "Yes" itself. If you got that working (and rely on a frigging click to grant total control!) then it is somewhat acceptable to use the same underlying thing for PIN.

 

[Grall]

I have just about the weakest password possible on my home PC, because I'm single, and if I get burglarized a password wouldn't help me anyway. No encryption though. My laptop does use filesystem-level encryption however (OSX filevault or whatever it's called), with a better password, and it locks when screensaver comes on or I close the lid. Seems prudent, I think.

 

[Albuquerque]

The WiFi sense feature on WP8/8.1 devices is handy for public WiFi. There's some sort of "critical mass" of how many times a single SSID at a single point must be used before it is "shared". Your house isn't likely to land on that list, but the free wireless at your local pub probably will because enough people will hit it continuously.

It isn't just a "collect and share ALL SSID's no matter what" feature.

Also it will not share anything that isn't PSK; if your home wireless uses Radius, it's no longer "eligible" for WiFI Sense.

Also about the "torrent"-like features of patch sharing -- it doesn't share when you're on a metered connection, and it still uses BITS technology so that it only consumes a tiny portion of bandwidth, and only when you're not using it anyway.

Not that anyone cares, but I got my box over the IaStorA failure by kicking it into IDE mode during initial setup, then installing the proper Intel RSTe driverset after it completed, and then kicking it back into AHCI mode. That was the only box that gave me any grief of the four that I upgraded at home.

My wife's Surface Pro (original) was the fastest and easiest of the bunch, which shouldn't surprise anyone. But what's with the vertical scrolling now instead of horizontal? My wife isn't too pleased with the change in GUI on that front. And Edge browser bites for tablet browsing; no swipe features? Jerks.

 

[Rurouni]

how do they know if the connection is metered or not? I have a mifi, and it sure is metered, but since my phone connected to it via wifi, it's treated as non metered connection, thus a lot of apps that have the option to only download using wifi is well.. downloading. I don't see how MS could circumvent that, unless it actively checking the IP and have an IP database that is known to be metered or not. Btw, Router with 3G is very popular here because unlimited access is only available in limited area.

 

[Albuquerque]

Microsoft does not "detect" a metered connection outside of one specific method: if you're using a Windows 8.1 phone, a Windows 8.1 or later PC can "discover" the internet sharing capability on the phone if you're using the same Microsoft account to log into both devices. In that very specific case, the PC can actually initiate the Internet Sharing ability on the phone (if you ask it to) and will mark the connection as Metered.

In all other cases, you must tell the OS if the connection is metered, simply because (as you correctly point out) there's no real way to discover that detail. I purposefully configure my metered connections as such, as to avoid other challenges with certain apps that may try to operate in the background.

You can always configure the sharing feature to use your local network only, which is what I would suggest for anyone with more than one Win10 PC in their household. This is a great idea as it will save on overall bandwidth consumption from your provider.

Or you can just turn it off; that's why the option is there. Enterprise deployments of Microsoft OS have enjoyed the "LAN sharing of patches" feature for several years now via SCCM and BrancheCache. Why send the same patches to 100 individual PC's at a single remote office over a slow T3 line, when you can send it once and let the other boxes figure it out amongst themselves. I've worked at two Fortune 250 companies now who use this functionality. I'm glad that Microsoft thought to finally allow this for home use.

 

[orangpelupa]

the internal torrent option only available on 10 pro and above right? Its unchangeable for home or lower

btw...
Microsoft still has not do their promise for fixing DTS/Dolby in W10.

from googling a while ago, i also found that the problem not only affected people with CHEAP onboard realtek audio but also those with EXPENSIVE Asus Xonar someting something.

Yeesh...