Windows 10 [2014 - 2017]

[Cyan]

The dGPU in the Book's keyboard is now a GTX 965M, a full GM206.
Weird that they didn't go with GP107 or Polaris 11

Both the new Book and Studio are using old 28nm GPUs. This is certainly odd considering they're both premium devices.

unless it's been redesigned to FinFet 16nm I don't see the point either

 

[Deleted member 2197]

Microsoft May Never Fix the High DPI Issues in Windows 10

The issue is simple enough for the majority of us who use Windows 10 with a single display. (Portable or desktop, it doesn’t matter.) If the resolution of the display on that PC is high enough, and the physical size of that display is small enough, then you’ve got what’s called a high DPI display. And you will need to scale the UI in order to make commonly-used interfaces—icons, buttons, text, whatever—readable and usable.

Where this functionality falls apart is legacy apps, especially older desktop applications that have never been updated for these modern display types. For example, my well-worn copy of Adobe Photoshop Elements 11 still works just fine on my desktop PC, where the display scaling on the 27-inch 1080p display is set to 100 percent. But on modern portable computers, like Surface Book, the menus and other onscreen interfaces are too tiny to read or accurately select because this app doesn’t scale. I had to buy a more modern version, Photoshop Elements 14, to use on these devices. That version does scale.

I mention a coincidence. Just yesterday, Microsoft published yet another lengthy blog post describing the challenges of high DPI displays and how it is continually improving the OS to make it better. Speaking of challenges, I challenge you to actually read it. It’s dense, and tough-going. But if you slog through all of it, the conclusion is obvious enough: Microsoft will never really fix this problem. Not really.

https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/83964/microsoft-may-never-fix-high-dpi-issues-windows-10

 

[Arwin]

Because you cannot magically fix all applications ever written for the Windows platform, correct. So it's a matter of people getting enough high DPI screens so that the majority of important apps at least are updated to work with them (or replaced).

I have done some testing with writing UWP apps that scale well, and it's not easy, but certainly much easier than it ever was before. Especially the multi-monitor auto-dpi scaling in Windows 10 works very well. Maybe when I get a 4k screen as well I will show how it works going from that to a 24" 1920x1200 to my iPad's 2000x1500 10" display.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

One fairly obvious solution to my mind is to allow apps to change resolution and run full screen. It'd be no worse than using those apps at lower res. I have to run my SP4 at lower than native res to accommodate older apps that I plain don't want to upgrade, especially when the modern upgrade cost is a frickin' subscription and/or have atrocious workflows I haven't the time nor inclination to relearn. So just let me set a "run in full screen resolution" mode in compatibility settings and have the display swap when the app is switched to - job done.

 

[Malo]

My HTPC has gradually become terrible to use since Anniversary update with multiple resolution problems, switching between 1080p->1080i, black screens, out of memory errors, constant shifting back to desktop even when running Kodi as Shell, the list goes on. During trying to update drivers etc. I noticed that there doesn't seem to be any drivers from AMD for the A6-3650 APU for WIndows 10, and it's using a Microsoft one only so that could be the cause. They have a HDMI driver for it so thankfully I'm not having problems with HD audio, passthrough etc.

It's about time to upgrade anyway as I'm likely going to build a gaming HTPC instead of streaming. Wanting to go for the 470 but damn thing uses twice the power of 1050ti.

 

[zed]

Warning - Both Microsoft Media Player and Groove Music do not accurately play back music files. Esp terrible for grove music, since its solely a music playback program, hilarious when you think about it, it does one job but fails at that .
I discovered this by mixing an album and getting really pissed off why it wasnt playing back correctly with the default music player, I thought it was me doing something wrong, till I tried other files.
winamp also doesnt play back correctly as well (though this can prolly be fixed, but since its not highDPI ready its too painful to use)
audacity, itunes, vlc do play back correctly

 

[Malo]

Could you elaborate on how it fails accuracy? All I really use is Media Player.

 

[lanek]

Warning - Both Microsoft Media Player and Groove Music do not accurately play back music files. Esp terrible for grove music, since its solely a music playback program, hilarious when you think about it, it does one job but fails at that .
I discovered this by mixing an album and getting really pissed off why it wasnt playing back correctly with the default music player, I thought it was me doing something wrong, till I tried other files.
winamp also doesnt play back correctly as well (though this can prolly be fixed, but since its not highDPI ready its too painful to use)
audacity, itunes, vlc do play back correctly

What do you mean ? the sound accuracy ?

 

[Albuquerque]

I'm curious about the Media Player / Groove playback thing too. I have a rather substantial pile (several hundred gigs) of variable encoding rate MP3s and, while I haven't played back every single one on my Win10 boxes, the ones I *have* played seem fine. The gaming rig also has a reasonably good audio system: SB X-Fi, Sony amp, decent monitors, OK rear sattelites, and a well-placed solid 12" powered sub. I'm not an audio snob by any stretch, but I've yet to encounter music in my own collection which did not sound the way I would expect.

Groove on my Win10 phone also seems to be fine; I use a pair of Bose QC20's on a regular basis and cannot detect issues with my sync'd music there either. Now, Pandora on the other hand, occasionally those guys sneak in a song which sounds like it was encoded with a trash codec at a bitrate made for floppy disks.

 

[zed]

What do you mean ? the sound accuracy ?

Yes, Load up a n uncompressedwav or even a compressed mp3 into wavelab,cubase,protools or if you don't spend $500 on a DAW even the freeware http://www.audacityteam.org/ now open open that same file in eg MS groove do an A/B listening comparison, you'll hear a marked difference. FWIW itunes sounds correct (though I hate it as a media player cause its a bloated bad piece of design)
groove etc is usable, i.e. its not like it sounds total crap, it was just very annoying to me spending hours trying to find out WTF my masters were sounding wrong

 

[orangpelupa]

Windows Media Player still plays just fine tho. Btw maybe Windows 10 have multiple audio fx layers?

The old ones are hidden in the audio device properties. Still using old UI. So maybe MS added a new Metro one

 

[BRiT]

Zed, what audio hardware are you using and how do you have it connected to your speakers?

 

[lanek]

Yes, Load up a n uncompressedwav or even a compressed mp3 into wavelab,cubase,protools or if you don't spend $500 on a DAW even the freeware http://www.audacityteam.org/ now open open that same file in eg MS groove do an A/B listening comparison, you'll hear a marked difference. FWIW itunes sounds correct (though I hate it as a media player cause its a bloated bad piece of design)
groove etc is usable, i.e. its not like it sounds total crap, it was just very annoying to me spending hours trying to find out WTF my masters were sounding wrong

I use Cubase, and i use ASIO drivers for audio, they surely bypass the "windows drivers".

 

[entity279]

I remember the older windows media player (winxp times) had some effects enabled by default (some echo, wow..), non - flat equalizer.. The likely explanation is that Groove is guilty of this very same sin(s) (which was acceptable for casual consumers back then, the same may be true now).

Audio drivers do less magic now AFAIK, i wouldn't suspect that software layer..

I have two Fostex 8 inch monitors at home, might give Groove a try now that you mentioned it

 

[zed]

Zed, what audio hardware are you using and how do you have it connected to your speakers?

with a couple of studio monitors (flat frequency response)

I use Cubase, and i use ASIO drivers for audio, they surely bypass the "windows drivers".

Yes, you can also select the inbuilt 'window drivers' but I wouldn't recommend it

I remember the older windows media player (winxp times) had some effects enabled by default (some echo, wow..), non - flat equalizer

Yeah I thought maybe they've played around with the equalizer with the software and not set it to a standard flat response. But groove doesnt even have an equalizer! http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...qualizer/14e94638-2e70-45b6-b602-5ebd07b9d159

so noones done eg an A/B between audacity and groove, takes 5 minutes, listen to 5 secs of clip X in groove then listen to the same clip in audacity, do they sound different?

 

[BRiT]

Yeah, I was thinking the same as most have thought, that perhaps there's some sort of equalizer that's somehow in the mix when using Grove. I'm really puzzled (as likely as you are) now that you're using a USB device for audio playback.

The only remotely random guess item I can think of is if Groove has some sort of "automatic copy protection" that is kicking in that would slightly alter the audio or only allow audio quality of a certain bitrate to be sent out if the audio path is non-DHCP hardware. Like I said, it's a total shot in the dark and likely isn't what's happening, but I can't fathom what else it might be considering there is no equalizer.

 

[Malo]

Does Audacity do any sound processin for fidelity enhancement, for instance something like DFX does?

 

[zed]

Does Audacity do any sound processin for fidelity enhancement, for instance something like DFX does?

perhaps, but the thing is
audacity, cubase, itunes, wavelab all sound exactly the same
groove,ms media player,winamp all sound different to the above (and from each other as well)

Logically its far more likely for the first group to be correct, not to mention a couple of those are professional programs, where ppl would create a hue and cry if gave wrong results

On a tangent, A couple of days ago, I was looking at the marketshare webbrowsing with mobile vs traditional. The above is like the browser wars, remember those?
Some ppl kept on using http://www.netmarketshare.com/ as the 'bible' (even though they admitted to tracking 100x less ppl and then altering the data after that) and claiming that internet explorer had way more marketshare than chrome, even though the other 4 trackers showed the opposite. I see though they now have chrome ahead, a very rapid transition (which win10 can't account for, using their own data)

 

[Malo]

Well I tried Audacity and doing A/B testing on various tracks between the two and couldn't tell any difference on my M-Audio monitors.

 

[orangpelupa]

Did they all use different audio out device?

There's a couple of them. Ditectx audio, wave audio, ASIO, etc