why the xbox720 should be using HD-DVD

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It was able to read the whole disc. Hence my confusion. The rep said there were no hardware modifications just a normal off the shelf PS3 and their QL disc.
I guess it isn't beyond the realms of possibility if the original target was the capability to read 100 GB discs. We know 200 GB discs wasn't a later addition to an existing spec, but a design from day one, and the hardware could well have been manufactured to support it even if the manufacturing processes aren't effective yet.

Which makes one wonder if all current BRD drives will be able to read higher capacity disks, or if it was just Sony's drives.
 
The question is what ps3 was it playing it. Was it a launch unit or a newer unit. The newer ps3s may just have new revisions of the optical drive that can read the new discs.
 
Interesting as it'd be to know, that's still a redundant consideration. What PS3 can play doesn't matter when considering what drive the next-gen consoles can use. The fact any PS3 can play QL BRD now means it'll be possible in the future for BRD equipped consoles.
 
I guess it isn't beyond the realms of possibility if the original target was the capability to read 100 GB discs. We know 200 GB discs wasn't a later addition to an existing spec, but a design from day one, and the hardware could well have been manufactured to support it even if the manufacturing processes aren't effective yet.

Which makes one wonder if all current BRD drives will be able to read higher capacity disks, or if it was just Sony's drives.

Indeed, while there haven't been any demonstrations of 200GB capability by an unmodified player, it wouldn't surprise me if they could play the 8 layer discs.

The only player I have personally seen playing a QL BD is the PS3, I couldn't say conclusively if other players can do QL or anything above DL.
 
The question is what ps3 was it playing it. Was it a launch unit or a newer unit. The newer ps3s may just have new revisions of the optical drive that can read the new discs.

Had a silver strip, so it could have been anything but the 20GB. I would guess it was a PAL 60GB or 40GB unit, but I really couldn't be sure as I never asked.
 
That makes my point actually :) When there was an alternative to blu-ray, namely hd-dvd, hackers went to that first because it was the easy mark. It got hacked and provided enough content to make the pirate scene happy. Once hd-dvd died, hacker attention turned to blu-ray since it was now the only alternative and it fell as well. Every blu-ray today can be ripped, I have dumped and re-encoded my entire 70 blu-ray disc so that I can play them anywhere around the house via a raid drive. Ahh, finally true 'fair use' :)

That's not the correct. Slysoft was actively working on BD+ hack while hd dvd was still around, and was partially cracked before hd dvd died 3 months later.


Maybe...but I'm not a big believer in 'unhackable'. DirecTV is a pain to hack, but why bother, there are numerous other sources for all it's content except for perhaps NFL Sunday Ticket.

DirecTV isn't a pain to hack, it's UNhackable. Satellite TV hacking started on DirecTV, and NFL sunday ticket is still one of the most desired packages around. Hackers only moved onto Dish after they gave up on trying to hack the P4.
 
Took a 3 day break from the thread, came back, caught up, and... what in the world? First of all, I want to mention that there was a one year grace period after the end of the format war, but now all militia members from either side are to have turned in their weapons. :p

This thread isn't about the merits of various optical technologies against one another, just simply whether it makes sense for the [720] to include a BD drive or whether an alternative based on HD DVD... and we'll expand that to any cost-effective alternative... makes sense.

I want to go back to this post by Brimstone, as I wanted to make a point to Microsoft's would-be goals and the context of the future "digital living room."

The main incentive for Microsoft to include a Blu-Ray player with full BD playback is to intice the Hardcore PS3 owners to buy a XB720.

The Hardcore PS3 owner is going to own some BD movies, so if the XB720 can play them it just makes the platform more appealing to that segment. Microsoft wants the Hardcore gamer.

Now, I don't think MS' goals are to lure hardcore PS3 owners in the least, and nor do I believe that MS is content with hardcore gamers being the extent of their domain. Ignoring the BD infrastructure aspect entirely at this point, I think part of it will just simply be if BD is considered 'popular' or not by that time. Statements have been made that there won't be a unified HD VOD service by that time - true, but not having an ordained successor is not the same as the assurance of BD's ascendancy. Right now it's got ~10% of the disc market, which IMO is pretty good, but how it trends three years out will be what matters in that regard.

Ultimately the point is that both MS and Sony do want these consoles and their successors to serve in a 'portal to media' capacity - forget the Wii and its sales numbers, as it's not in that arena - and in a future where any and every STB and assorted player-of-whatever is going to be able to start granting access to simple gameplay and connectivity, if BD players themselves became a popular means of connected media access and Wii-level gaming, I mean it certainly behooves MS to equal those checkboxes and more.

So I see it as does it just make sense to include BD because it'll be cheap anyway; if there are viable alternatives, or alternatives considered for anti-piracy reasons, well there's another aspect that might cause MS to go another route anyway. Regardless of the above, if BD is considered an integral part of the unified 'media' experience in the year 2012, then I think MS will include it just because it doesn't need to be missing any features it'd be simple enough to include as not. Granted they might support through optical or otherwise a contender to BD's niche that might actually actively take them away from BD, but that's not worth guessing at.

Point being, quad-level BDs, the maturity of multi-layer DVDs... all this other stuff... it's not what MS cares about. These are things that will only factor in depending on the other criteria MS needs to consider and where they opt to position themselves. The original question of the thread was simply would HD DVD make sense. And yes it makes sense enough, scenario dependent.
 
Right now it's got ~10% of the disc market, which IMO is pretty good, but how it trends three years out will be what matters in that regard.

What I believe and what others may believe is that while bluray may gain in the disc market (mostly because it will become as cheap as dvd and just replace it that way) However even if bluray gets 40% of the disc market , it may only equal what 15% of the dvd market is today or 25% of what the dvd market is today as other tech takes market share away. Look at the market in the states. I bought zack and miri on bluray for $30 bucks its first day released. With that same $30 bucks I could have paid for 2 months of netflix 2 disc rental with streaming to up to 5 enabled devices. As people need to cut back they will look at the most cost effective things and bluray sadly is not it and doesn't look like it will be in the near future.

if BD players themselves became a popular means of connected media access and Wii-level gaming, I mean it certainly behooves MS to equal those checkboxes and more.
Does it if bluray stand alones are $100 or less ?
 
What I believe and what others may believe is that while bluray may gain in the disc market (mostly because it will become as cheap as dvd and just replace it that way) However even if bluray gets 40% of the disc market , it may only equal what 15% of the dvd market is today or 25% of what the dvd market is today as other tech takes market share away. Look at the market in the states. I bought zack and miri on bluray for $30 bucks its first day released. With that same $30 bucks I could have paid for 2 months of netflix 2 disc rental with streaming to up to 5 enabled devices. As people need to cut back they will look at the most cost effective things and bluray sadly is not it and doesn't look like it will be in the near future.

Does it if bluray stand alones are $100 or less ?

So you think that on a world wide scale VOD will take up 85% or 75% of movie sales?. That would require these 75% of customers to have broadband, without caps. It would require VOD to be so widespread and accepted that 75% of the customers have it, and use it. It would also require that all VOD´s could sell every movie from every studio. And this is in every country in the world.

Blu-Ray isn´t gonna last forever, but it´s going to be here for a good while, and it will certainly be a big player when the next round of consoles are released.

Btw, for new releases in Denmark Blu-Ray is already getting ever so close to DVD prices. The price difference is more a case of DVD´s have been reduced in price.

DVD starts at 30$ BR 35$.
 
What I believe and what others may believe is that while bluray may gain in the disc market (mostly because it will become as cheap as dvd and just replace it that way) However even if bluray gets 40% of the disc market , it may only equal what 15% of the dvd market is today or 25% of what the dvd market is today as other tech takes market share away.

I'd like to know how you come up with those numbers.
 
Blu-Ray isn´t gonna last forever, but it´s going to be here for a good while, and it will certainly be a big player when the next round of consoles are released.

Blu-ray's going to be around a long time, but the 'certainly a big player' is the part that I think people are preemptively granting. Let's just wait and see; how it's trending three years from now will effect the extent to which it is viewed as either an integral or an optional part of the digital living room in 2012. Just because competition is fractured doesn't mean it's not a "threat" when viewed in the aggregate.
 
I don't see BluRay's movie success as particularly relevant myself. Let's say BRD flops economically and people stick to DVD drives or VOD. A DVD drive still isn't going to cut it next-gen. An alternative will be necessary, and BRD will be the most cost effective of all options if everything continues as is.
 
how can BD not be a big player? It seems pretty obvious to me that the studios want BD to be the only way you can buy a 1080p full HD movie with all the bells and whistles. In fact, you can't even buy an HD movie from any of the VOD vendors, and I don't see the studios ever letting that happen as long as BD is around.
 
So you think that on a world wide scale VOD will take up 85% or 75% of movie sales?. That would require these 75% of customers to have broadband, without caps. It would require VOD to be so widespread and accepted that 75% of the customers have it, and use it. It would also require that all VOD´s could sell every movie from every studio. And this is in every country in the world.

Blu-Ray isn´t gonna last forever, but it´s going to be here for a good while, and it will certainly be a big player when the next round of consoles are released.

Btw, for new releases in Denmark Blu-Ray is already getting ever so close to DVD prices. The price difference is more a case of DVD´s have been reduced in price.

DVD starts at 30$ BR 35$.


Do you expect DVD's to disapear completely when you make up your numbers ? I still expect dvd to be the prime seller in 5 years. I just expect disc sales to shrink as we go through the next few years and for VOD market to grow while the disc market is shrinking.

Where you are bluray may not be a bad deal. Over here Sex drive was $30 bucks on bluray day of and $15 on dvd. From what I was able to tell the dvd had more features to boot. Double the price and less features isn't going to drive consumers to the format as they struggle to pay mortgages and other bills. Or heck even when they can't find jobs. For that $15 in savings i can get a month of netflix that allows me to have 2 physical discs out at a time and unlimited streaming.

That is why my disc purchases are dropping off a steap rock. I found a better means of spending my money and getting more for it. I still buy blurays , but now i'm much more selective in what i buy
 
In the first years of dvd I bought piles of VHS tapes on sale. But let's not get distracted too much ... ;)
 
Blu-ray's going to be around a long time, but the 'certainly a big player' is the part that I think people are preemptively granting. Let's just wait and see; how it's trending three years from now will effect the extent to which it is viewed as either an integral or an optional part of the digital living room in 2012. Just because competition is fractured doesn't mean it's not a "threat" when viewed in the aggregate.

Big player when it comes to movies in General, not for people picking one console over another.
 
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