Why isn't streaming used more predominantly in GC/PS2 games?

Li Mu Bai

Regular
To overcome their small memory footprints? RS3, J&DII, GTA, & GTA:VC are the only games that utilize it that I know of. Is it inherently more expensive or difficult to transfer code & data this way? Given the PS2's architecture, it would seem almost natural. So why the shortage of software on these consoles using data on the fly? Or would devs. rather work within a systems' constraints than exceed them. (less work perhaps?)
 
Do keep in mind that most devs suck at filling memory to begin with.

Fafalada said that given the data read rate of a PS2's DVD-ROM, it should be able to fill main RAM completely like three times per second or something like that... but we still often see load times that last sometimes even upwards of a whole minute.
 
what might streaming be like on PS3, concidering Blu-Ray ===> HDD/Flash memory ====> Rambus XDR main memory ====> eDRAM on Broadband Engine & Visulizer. (maybe cutting out the HDD/Flash memory "step" since maybe neither will be used)

????
 
PS3, as seen from patents, contracts, looks to take what PS2 called 'streaming' to a whole new level.
 
By 'streaming' I assume you mean games that stream more than just music - games that stream graphics as well?

There are more games that use it, especially more recent ones.

Some examples:

BGDA 1&2, CoN, SSX3, Prince of Persia (you can hear it loading sometimes when you walk around empty corridors), ROTK (same thing as PoP). R&C I'm not sure about, even though it shares the engine code with Jak.
 
I think one big problem is creating content that can be "streamed" effectively. Any one point in the game has to be broken up into chunks that can be loaded and unloaded sequentially, without pause. The benefits are questionable too, when you could accomplish the same thing by just splitting a level up into two or three pieces (a good example of this would be Half-life).
 
nobie said:
I think one big problem is creating content that can be "streamed" effectively. Any one point in the game has to be broken up into chunks that can be loaded and unloaded sequentially, without pause. The benefits are questionable too, when you could accomplish the same thing by just splitting a level up into two or three pieces (a good example of this would be Half-life).

Or Metroid Prime? Games split up sequentially with door segways?
 
marconelly! said:
By 'streaming' I assume you mean games that stream more than just music - games that stream graphics as well?

There are more games that use it, especially more recent ones.

Some examples:

BGDA 1&2, CoN, SSX3, Prince of Persia (you can hear it loading sometimes when you walk around empty corridors), ROTK (same thing as PoP). R&C I'm not sure about, even though it shares the engine code with Jak.

I'm not doubting you Marco, but did the various developers verify streaming textures for these aforementioned games?
 
Li Mu Bai said:
Or Metroid Prime? Games split up sequentially with door segways?
Sector streaming makes sense, however you'll have to 'lock' the door until the next sector is loaded (what's done in Metroid Prime).
PCs devs aren't used to streaming, they rather load up everything in memory and forget about it.
Last point, doing it isn't too easy, loading while keeping a good framerate can be tricky.

my 0.02€
 
Fatal Frame 2 also does constant loading from disc as you walk around the town. Usually when you go through doors there is a slight pause, but nothing like Metroid prime.
 
PC-Engine said:
What about Shenmue?

I vaguely remember what seemed like loading as Ryo structs around town int partII. otherwise (as I 'm sure you know), the not predictablke room to room stuff was the usual *now loading* job
 
How does Halo do it?

You can go back and forth anytime between load zones... almost instantly. Is this because of level caching on the hard drive?
 
Fafalada said that given the data read rate of a PS2's DVD-ROM, it should be able to fill main RAM completely like three times per second or something like that

Are you sure he didn't say it can fill main ram once every three seconds?
 
Teasy said:
Fafalada said that given the data read rate of a PS2's DVD-ROM, it should be able to fill main RAM completely like three times per second or something like that

Are you sure he didn't say it can fill main ram once every three seconds?
I was thinking that too Teasy. PS2's DVD drive with burst transfer rates nearing 100MB/s? That's not right.
 
Killing time on 3DO was already streaming textures on the fly in 95 :D

I think you underestimate the number of "streamed games".
 
Yeah, it would take a few seconds in a best-case scenario to fill all the RAM on PS2, just as with any of the consoles.

Shenmue doesn't load level data on the fly; it loads characters and their animation routines for new parts of their daily schedules dynamically, which is why you can have hundreds of different characters eventually pass you without load pauses when you stand still (and is the cause for characters fading-in out of nowhere - game didn't load the new NPCs fast enough.) Shenmue's streaming from the disc is the reason why all the music and sound effects (excluding the vocals) are generated by the sound hardware and not played off the GDs.

I'd think streaming is basically in use whenever you talk about cache functionality, so PS2 and GC most definitely are doing it in most games. It's not always implemented into a streaming-ahead scheme for seamless worlds, of course. Concerns of predictability and access speed make that a delicate issue to balance in, but it's always impressive when you see it.

Alstrong:
How does Halo do it?

You can go back and forth anytime between load zones... almost instantly. Is this because of level caching on the hard drive?
Yeah, that's a big bonus enabled by the hard drive even when the game engine itself wasn't necessarily adapted to continuously stream for seamless worlds.
 
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