Why does Xbox One have a Bluray player?

[dagamer]

If its not a SKU worth putting in every single retail store and only selling online, then it's not a SKU worth making. Microsoft would rather just lose those sales. And if its only 10K, then MS isn't pissing that many people off. I'm not saying it can't be done, it most certainly can. I just don't think it passes the threshold to do it if I were making the decisions.


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[AzBat]

Good thing you're not making the decisions.

Tommy McClain

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If its not a SKU worth putting in every single retail store and only selling online, then it's not a SKU worth making. Microsoft would rather just lose those sales. And if its only 10K, then MS isn't pissing that many people off. I'm not saying it can't be done, it most certainly can. I just don't think it passes the threshold to do it if I were making the decisions.

So you're answer to the title is, "they just can't be arsed." As for 10k, that's just a made up figure. If they were open to preorders, there may be a few hundred thousand who'd prefer a BRD-free SKU that they could measure, instead of blindly guessing.

 

[dagamer]

So you're answer to the title is, "they just can't be arsed." As for 10k, that's just a made up figure. If they were open to preorders, there may be a few hundred thousand who'd prefer a BRD-free SKU that they could measure, instead of blindly guessing.

More like "Because we want to have one?"


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[Grall]

Cheapest BRD drive on Newegg is $50. Unless there's a crazy markup on that, cost to include a BRD in a console has to be $25-30 minimum.

Using retail prices to guesstimate build costs has always been a doomed proposition. It's not accurate, it never has been. What's in a BR drive anyway, really? Mechanically, nothing that differs from a DVDROM, and they really are dirt cheap. Slight differences to the optics (one additional laser/pickup), but that's not exactly space-age tech, and a different ASIC to handle reading the disc. You think a chip like that's gonna cost very much these days, though...?

So someone should pay ~$30 extra for a component they don't want and won't use

Oh BOO HOO. Are these people forced to buy an xbone in the first place then? No. SO DON'T BUY IT. Get a PC instead, without an optical drive. Consoles aren't all-you-can-eat buffets where you can pick and choose which bits you want or not.

I don't want either kinect or a controller, I prefer mouse and keyboard ever since I grew up and became an adult. You think there should be an edition lacking these things as well, perhaps?

 

[AlphaWolf]

About $10 in license fees different from a dvd rom also.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Using retail prices to guesstimate build costs has always been a doomed proposition. It's not accurate, it never has been. What's in a BR drive anyway, really? Mechanically, nothing that differs from a DVDROM, and they really are dirt cheap. Slight differences to the optics (one additional laser/pickup), but that's not exactly space-age tech, and a different ASIC to handle reading the disc. You think a chip like that's gonna cost very much these days, though...?

Of course the retail price isn't going to be reflective of what MS or Sony have to pay, but it is relative. If it costs 50 at retail, it's highly unlikely it'll cost less than 25 to an OEM.

Besides that ignores the whole price premium point that a higher SKU brings in.

Or are you going to now argue that when the PS3 launched a 20 GB HDD was really 100 USD less than a 60 GB HDD?

Oh BOO HOO. Are these people forced to buy an xbone in the first place then? No. SO DON'T BUY IT. Get a PC instead, without an optical drive. Consoles aren't all-you-can-eat buffets where you can pick and choose which bits you want or not.

I don't want either kinect or a controller, I prefer mouse and keyboard ever since I grew up and became an adult. You think there should be an edition lacking these things as well, perhaps?

That's the point. It's a disincentive to me to buy either an Xbox One OR a PS4. Both are saddled with something I won't use that is not required in any way for the in core functions of the box. So it means that both Sony and Microsoft have potentially lost some sales.

Will you not be able to run all games or enjoy all features of a game if the BRD is removed? Nope. Will you not be able to watch movies if the BRD is removed? Nope. Will not be able to enjoy music with the BRD removed? Nope.

I knew someone would make the silly suggestion of removing Kinect. Will you be able to run all games and enjoy all features of all games with the Kinect removed? Nope, you won't be able to. Will you be able to navigate the UI the way Microsoft intends (core experience) without Kinect? Nope.

Removing the BRD affects nothing on either PS4 or Xbox One. Removing Kinect on the Xbox One means a greatly reduced core user experience on the other hand.

Would removal of the BRD mean I'll get an Xbox One or a PS4? Not guaranteed. But it certainly increases the odds of me getting one quite significantly if it was 50-100 USD less.

Regards,
SB

 

[Bigus Dickus]

I have no actual data so just throwing my meaningless guess in the ring like everyone else has. Retail pricing is nearly meaningless. Based on the technology and bom, my guess for bulk pricing for these quantities to the bargaining power of MS would probably fall between $10 and $15 bucks. No way it hits $20. The $50-$100 comment thrown out earlier is ludicrous.

Grall is right. Essentially all the bom savings would be offset by additional overhead generated by manufacturing complexity, warehousing sorting and tracking of multiple sku's, additional advertising, and probably returns from confused consumers. Why on earth would MS risk confusing or irritating the larger portion who might make use of a drive to satisfy a small minority who might not, with pricing of $495.99 instead of $499.99?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I have no actual data so just throwing my meaningless guess in the ring like everyone else has. Retail pricing is nearly meaningless. Based on the technology and bom, my guess for bulk pricing for these quantities to the bargaining power of MS would probably fall between $10 and $15 bucks. No way it hits $20. The $50-$100 comment thrown out earlier is ludicrous.

Grall is right. Essentially all the bom savings would be offset by additional overhead generated by manufacturing complexity, warehousing sorting and tracking of multiple sku's, additional advertising, and probably returns from confused consumers. Why on earth would MS risk confusing or irritating the larger portion who might make use of a drive to satisfy a small minority who might not, with pricing of $495.99 instead of $499.99?

People constantly parade that out while conveniently ignoring the fact that the launch 20 GB PS3 was 100 USD less than the launch 60 GB PS3. The price difference between a 20 GB and 60 GB 2.5" HDD at time of launch was quite significantly less than 100 USD.

Likewise, a launch X360 with 20 GB HDD was 100 USD more than a launch X360 without. Again a 20 GB 2.5" HDD was nowhere near 100 USD.

Regards,
SB

 

[Brad Grenz]

Both those systems launched being sold at a loss. Charging $100 more on the premium versions just meant they lost marginally less money on those SKUs. That doesn't seem to be the case with the Xbox One. It seems likely that it is being sold around a break even point right now, so even if they were to pass on all the savings to users in a version with no optical drive, that savings would be piddly. Certainly not worth the hassle to Microsoft to save a tiny minority of customers a very small amount of money. What is $20 to a user who's willing to spend $450 for the system and $60 a year for Gold plus however many hundreds of dollars on games over the course of a generation? It's a rounding error.

 

[Sigfried1977]

Removing the BRD affects nothing on either PS4 or Xbox One. Removing Kinect on the Xbox One means a greatly reduced core user experience on the other hand.

Depends on what one considers to be a core feature. Not having a blu ray disc drive would certainly affect me and my lovely collection of blu-ray movies plus all the games I'll inevitably be picking up on the cheap on Amazon over the years. For me that is very much a core feature of the new systems. Kinect, on the other hand, is not. Waving my arms around to navigate the UI is not a core feature for me, and judging by all the games presentations we've seen so far, the developers don't seem to regard it as a core feature either.

 

[warb]

Kinect is where the mic is for every user. You'd get very clearly diminished functionality and a clumsier UI without additional voice/gesture control and user recognition.

Without BD drive you'd have to download games and movies. An optional no-Bluray SKU would limit the individual user who wants it, whereas a no-Kinect SKU would create a mess.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Depends on what one considers to be a core feature. Not having a blu ray disc drive would certainly affect me and my lovely collection of blu-ray movies plus all the games I'll inevitably be picking up on the cheap on Amazon over the years. For me that is very much a core feature of the new systems. Kinect, on the other hand, is not. Waving my arms around to navigate the UI is not a core feature for me, and judging by all the games presentations we've seen so far, the developers don't seem to regard it as a core feature either.

The core experience as the Manufacturer intends. The same for TV's (I don't need SmartTV features but it's required for the core experience of certain models, for example).

The core experience for the Xbox One is Games, Media (movies, music, etc.), social networking (Skype, internet, facebook, etc.), voice and motion controlled UI and games, etc. Remove Kinect and you remove a core experience. Remove BRD and you only remove a distribution medium, all core functions still operate as intended.

The same goes for PS4. Remove the BRD and the only thing you have removed is a distribution avenue, no core functions of the machine have been compromised.

In other words, there is absolutely zero differences in functionality for an Xbox One or PS4 with or without a BRD. The only difference is how you obtain your games, music, video...

Remove Kinect from Xbox One and suddenly you have a vastly impacted experience, especially when you consider that once you make it optional, you have now impacted the experience even for those people that want it. As if it was option it wouldn't be used in even remotely as many games.

Regards,
SB

 

[-tkf-]

People constantly parade that out while conveniently ignoring the fact that the launch 20 GB PS3 was 100 USD less than the launch 60 GB PS3. The price difference between a 20 GB and 60 GB 2.5" HDD at time of launch was quite significantly less than 100 USD.

Likewise, a launch X360 with 20 GB HDD was 100 USD more than a launch X360 without. Again a 20 GB 2.5" HDD was nowhere near 100 USD.

Regards,
SB

Afaik the 20 gb PS3 also lost the wifi module and let's not forget, the chrome finish.

So it's more than just the drive size, Microsoft always overcharged on their hard drives.

 

[-tkf-]

The core experience as the Manufacturer intends. The same for TV's (I don't need SmartTV features but it's required for the core experience of certain models, for example).

The core experience for the Xbox One is Games, Media (movies, music, etc.), social networking (Skype, internet, facebook, etc.), voice and motion controlled UI and games, etc. Remove Kinect and you remove a core experience. Remove BRD and you only remove a distribution medium, all core functions still operate as intended.

The same goes for PS4. Remove the BRD and the only thing you have removed is a distribution avenue, no core functions of the machine have been compromised.

In other words, there is absolutely zero differences in functionality for an Xbox One or PS4 with or without a BRD. The only difference is how you obtain your games, music, video...

Remove Kinect from Xbox One and suddenly you have a vastly impacted experience, especially when you consider that once you make it optional, you have now impacted the experience even for those people that want it. As if it was option it wouldn't be used in even remotely as many games.

Regards,
SB

There is so many useless features in modern TVs that people pay for. Everything from 3D to cameras for motion control. And to often you are forced to pay for those features to get those you need.

Kinect on the xbox one is not a core feature for me, but something Microsoft thinks I should have, and pay for. Kinect on the 360 is enough for me. Let's get a blu-ray and Kinect less xbox one sku and every one wins

 

[warb]

They should do one that doesn't play games because there'll be someone for whom that isn't a "core feature". Maybe one without sound processors and outputs, for the deaf.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

They should do one that doesn't play games...

Games are just software. The hardware costs won't be reduced by creating a box doesn't doesn't play games because the same hardware will be needed to drive the non-gaming software. There's the potential to create a lower spec console that's cheaper, but that'd need a new silicon design with considerable cost. We've had prior discussions about low-spec, multimedia focussed SKUs too. That's certainly an option and one you wont' get the likes of Silent-Buddha complaining against giving to people if they want it.

... because there'll be someone for whom that isn't a "core feature". Maybe one without sound processors and outputs, for the deaf.

Now you're just being silly. If you want to go ludicrous, how's about putting a Braille printer into every box for the tiny few deaf-blind gamers who want to play RPGs? And a nail-varnish dispenser for girls who want to do their nails while using Kinect voice controls with the TV? We're talking a cost saving of tens of dollars, not pennies, on a console, and justifying that with considerations of what it would cost to implement and whether it's viable or not. Re-architecting the whole silicon and creating a deaf-specific version of the API is stupidly costly and complex, and so makes no economic sense providing a cheaper SKU for the deaf (which wouldn't be cheaper because of the costs in satisfying a niche market).

All that's being asked here is to not put in the BRD during manufacture. It's a very simple, easy step, adding no costs to the manufacturing process.

 

[Xalion]

The core experience as the Manufacturer intends. The same for TV's (I don't need SmartTV features but it's required for the core experience of certain models, for example).

You could make your exact same argument for the Kinect being no more important to the "core experience" than the Blu-ray drive. After all, even you quoted movies as part of the "core experience" - and the premiere format for movies right now is Blu-ray. Sure, you can download some movies, but you could also perform nearly all of the functions of the Kinect with another input device. The best way to get movies - especially for video-philes and audiophiles is via Blu-ray.

After thinking about this, I went looking to see how important people think the drive actually is. IGN recently conducted a poll on this. Blu-ray compatibility was rated as more important to users than online games, indie game support, digital rights management, streaming video content, communicating with friend and family, camera functionality, and voice recognition - among others. Simply put, it seems far more people would prefer to see the Kinect dropped than the Blu-ray drive.

In the end, I think the argument against removing the drive is fairly simple and very compelling. There is a cost associated with introducing a new SKU. That cost shows up in a lot of ways - things like internal testing, distribution costs, channel marketing, etc. There is also an opportunity cost associated with removing something from hardware. While people can bicker back and forth over what the exact cost is, it is most certainly not zero.

With Microsoft's original "all digital" strategy, I am sure they did some research and ran the numbers to figure out what that cost was. The fact that they included the drive in the first place tells me their numbers told them removing the drive wasn't worth it. Perhaps next gen we will start to see this. But for now, I don't believe there is enough support for the business model that would drive a media-less console.

 

[Xalion]

All that's being asked here is to not put in the BRD during manufacture. It's a very simple, easy step, adding no costs to the manufacturing process.

I don't think this is at all true. Any change to the manufacturing process adds cost. If for no other reason than you have to modify the assembly line to accomplish it. In this case, you are also adding another SKU that must be involved in all internal tests for software updates and support. There is also additional testing that must be done to ensure that the change doesn't cause structural problems (for example, does it leave a weak spot if people stack entertainment equipment on it or does it significantly alter the thermal properties of the system). You also add the book keeping overhead of managing multiple SKUs in the market (even if you sell them just through your own store).

This isn't a simple no cost proposition for Microsoft. The question is does the cost of the drive itself offset those costs. I don't know that anyone here can actually answer that question though.

 

[Grall]

That's the point. It's a disincentive to me to buy either an Xbox One OR a PS4. Both are saddled with something I won't use that is not required in any way for the in core functions of the box. So it means that both Sony and Microsoft have potentially lost some sales.

Please. Stop.

Just...stop. I simply cannot take that silly position seriously. You buy it, and you use it, and be happy with it. What the shit does it MATTER if there's an optical drive in it which you may never use? It's like refusing to buy a particular car because there's a cigarette lighter on the dash and you don't smoke. It's so stupid and childish and petty to get so hung up on such a triviality that it literally fries synapses in my brain just thinking about it.

Even if you never plan on using that drive, what if a mate of yours come around with a game on a disc which he wants you to try? There's no harm in it being there, and the increase in purchase price is inconsequential. It doesn't even add to the volume of the device, due to microsoft's crappy inept design of the console itself, so even if they removed it, chances are near-100% the casing would be just as big and chunky and unattractive anyway.