Virtua Tennis 3: PS3 version a little better (IGN)

[MasterDisaster]

Running higher resolution textures will not bring a performance hit unless the jump results in texture fetches that exceed the maximum ram-gpu bandwith.

gpu <-ram and cpu<-ram bandwidth in modern consoles is one of the worse problems for a dev together with limited memory space

Is'nt Rockstar Ping Pong more focused close up, in a closed environment?

virtua tennis is a closed envirorment too, there's no long drawing distance, don't make you wrong only because there's a sky

While Virtua Tennis is very open,

no, it is not

huge stadium

it's a very simple model
if you want to see some real huge stadiums, take a look to the screenshots of the new fifa

extended 3rd person camera angles?

the POV really don't change anything in rendering quality to the hardware, and table tennis is 3rd pv too

Is it even fair to compare the two? Wouldnt top spin be a better choice?

yes, it is fair I assume, we are talking of textures, then take a look something that VT5 ps3 and 360 can't touch:

http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/3018/962_0004.jpg
http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/2843/962_0005.jpg

is top spin a better choice?
no
why?
if we are talking about the texturing capabilities of the machine, we have to take the best textures that we have seen, not the average

 

[Bad_Boy]

Why are we comparing two different games again?
next up, tiger woods golf vs gears of war!

im sorry i thought this
http://files.xboxic.com/xbox-360/virtua-tennis-3/dusseldorfopen03.jpg
was a larger environment than this
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/7846/tabletennistrailerx36043jo.jpg

 

[MasterDisaster]

Why are we comparing two different games again?
next up, tiger woods golf vs gears of war!

easy sarcarms aside, I assume that comparing textures in two similar games on the same platform is far more fair than comparing to different ports made by different dev teams on different platforms

so in my opinion our research to demostrate that the textures in this game are not bounded by hardware capabilities but by other factors makes a lot more of sense ot the whole thread topic

don't you agree?

 

[Bad_Boy]

easy sarcarms aside, I assume that comparing textures in two similar games on the same platform is far more fair than comparing to different ports made by different dev teams on different platforms

so in my opinion our research to demostrate that the textures in this game are not bounded by hardware capabilities but by other factors makes a lot more of sense ot the whole thread topic

don't you agree?

No im sorry I cannot agree with that. You have completely different scenes, polygons focused in entirely two different instances, textures focused in different locations, different types of environmental events going on, different levels of LOD during gameplay, different amount of characters on screen(you forget the game has to run properly with 4 tennis players on the court as well, not to mention the crowds), and different times of development schedules, and the big thing your missing is that one is a console developed game and the other is an arcade port(if we are talking about sega, they want the console game close to the arcade board as possible). It's entirely way too many differences for us to start comparing these two titles. Even if they were similar games, It's like comparing halo 3 to ut2k7. It just can't be done accurately.

 

[MasterDisaster]

No im sorry I cannot agree with that. You have completely different scenes, polygons focused in entirely two different instances, textures focused in different locations, different types of environmental events going on, different levels of LOD during gameplay, different amount of characters on screen(you forget the game has to run properly with 4 tennis players on the court as well, not to mention the crowds), and different times of development schedules, and the big thing your missing is that one is a console developed game and the other is an arcade port(if we are talking about sega, they want the console game close to the arcade board as possible). It's entirely way too many differences for us to start comparing these two titles. Even if they were similar games, It's like comparing halo 3 to ut2k7. It just can't be done accurately.

we are talking only about textures, friend, polys and other factors are not so important in our discussion, that's why we can take TT to demonstrate that a 360 can go beyond (far beyond) the textures in VT5

that's why we are taking here examples of other games that explain better the concepts that we are talking about

in my opinion in this game all is 'very average' to low, in both versions
stadium, detail, textures, number of models, whole poly count

the machine is capable of more, if you wants to see a lot of models, an 'huge' stadiums, huge models and textures, we have other sport games

example:
http://www.xboxyde.com/pop_image.html?G=3933&N=9
http://www.xboxyde.com/pop_image.html?G=3933&N=2
http://www.xboxyde.com/pop_image.html?G=3933&N=6

virtua tennis is very a bad example of what a next gen console can do

the difference between the to ports cames from the different work done from different teams of different talent and I can't understand how someone, fair, can think otherwise, sincerely

 

[one]

in my opinion in this game all is 'very average' to low, in both versions stadium, detail, textures, number of models, whole poly count

Where have you watched new media for Virtua Tennis 3 for PS3 and 360? I'd like to watch them too.

 

[Bad_Boy]

we are talking only about textures, friend, polys and other factors are not so important in our discussion, that's why we can take TT to demonstrate that a 360 can go beyond (far beyond) the textures in VT5

Thats just the thing, your acting like those things dont matter. They are very important. It would never be a fair comparison with textures when the polygons are drastically different. Say theoretically, you have 512mb of textures on one character model. Now in another game you have two characters, if the system's limit is 512mb you cannot have 512mb of textures on both of those two models. You have to compromise. Just in the case, you have textures adressed in other things like the grass, the objects/models on the side of the court, the crowd, the textures in the skybox, etc.

Just because one game has high textures on two characters, doesnt mean another game with two characters will feature the same high textures. You have to take in account the other things textured and so on.

And when I say "huge stadium's", I'm specifically comparing the size of the environment of Table Tennis, to the size of the Virtua Tennis environment. They are obviously different.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Bad_Boy's right. One of those games has more scenery to spend resources on, so can't be used as a comparison. Comparing the same game on two different machines is the best opportunity we have for comparing performance, and the fact that's thwart with complications including different dev teams and abilties just goes to show how hard it is to make such comparisons, especially from single games.

In this case with do have a third factor which is the PC arcade box and Sega saying porting to PS3 is 'better' because of the GPU. Working out what that actually means doesn't seem straight forward though.

 

[Platon]

I can't believe that some people could believe that lower res textures would depend on the xbox360. I mean if the game would be something out of this world maybe but I odn't think that VT is that. And then we have Starbreeze saying that the xbox360 does indeed have an edge over PS3 when it comes to textures and I would be inclined to believe them since they make a game for both platforms and should know what they are talking about, not like here where you have two different teams with different capabilities porting a game...

 

[Bad_Boy]

I just wanna know why you guys are getting so riled up and angry over this, the games are not even done yet.

 

[MasterDisaster]

Thats just the thing, your acting like those things dont matter. They are very important. It would never be a fair comparison with textures when the polygons are drastically different.

polys are not important in this discussion because the difference between the two ports is reported as texturing details on the models
simple as it is

Bad_Boy's right.One of those games has more scenery to spend resources on, so can't be used as a comparison.

great % of the screen in VT5 is the sky which is the less resource demanding thing in videogames, the envirorment of VT5 is low poly, so is useless pointing on this to explain why the textures in VT5 looks so bad compared to TT ones, and again, the polys throughput don't influence the quality of textures near at the point of view
came on, we are talking about the basics

I just wanna know why you guys are getting so riled up and angry over this, the games are not even done yet.

curious this kind of comments are not usefull friend
who talked to you saying that I'm angry?
we are in a tech forum, I think, to discuss, and no, I don't believe that a smile make you less angry then someone other

I just believe that it's important to fix some thing because a lot of newbe reads B3d, we have to say exact things


the only things that can make the textures in ps3 vt5 more crisp than 360 vt5 are:

a) an easy port from 6800gt to rsx, more optimized result, so more space to add some details via shaders or AF or some additional normal maps
b) the better talented team is allocated to ps3 port, the worse to 360
c) there are 6-8 months to release of final code

texturing advantage of ps3 at this time?
using bluray you can store less compressed textures, so loading time can be a bit short

texturing advantage of 360 at this time?
+96 MB of memory
+10 MB from framebuffer stored in edram and not in gddr3
+all the 512 MB (- tot MB of the main game code) are directly accessible for texturing, and not only a bank of 256 MB, without passing trought the cpu

so this difference can be caused by the hardware capabilities?
no

this can calm down people to use this argument pros /agains a specified console?
seems no

in the final release code, can we see that the 360 will lead the texture quality, or the ps3 ports will have again more crisp textures?
no one have a crystal ball, until this moment we can only discuss of the facts (different teams working on ports, porting source gpu very very similar to ps3 gpu, hardware spec of the console)
so we can only limit to this, fairly, or don't limit to this, unfairly

quietly, no one there is angry, I would hope

 

[zed]

note that in both examples the hig textures have the same hit,

sorry to be a pedantic prick but 70->60 vs 60->50 is not the same. u habe to think in percentages
sorry asbout the interuption folks enjoy the show

 

[ZiFF]

+96 MB of memory

People still want to believe? This was reported before E3 where they removed dual display support etc.

And you think 360 OS will use 0MB?

+all the 512 MB (- tot MB of the main game code) are directly accessible for texturing, and not only a bank of 256 MB, without passing trought the cpu

Too bad the only 128-bit connection has to be shared with the hungry CPU.

 

[Hardknock]

People still want to believe? This was reported before E3 where they removed dual display support etc.

And you think 360 OS will use 0MB?



Too bad the only 128-bit connection has to be shared with the hungry CPU.

Uhh, no this wasn't. And it's been confirmed from what I understand that Sony uses 96MB for their OS while MS uses 32MB. Read Starbreeze's interview and you'll see that 360 has a bit more RAM available for textures compared to the PS3.

 

[inefficient]

That 96 information was never fully qualified. And there is no reason for the OS to hold hostage 96MB of ram while a game is running. Since all PS3s have a HD, that memory could be swapped easily to the HD while the game was running and many OS features were not needed. Even your PC does this.

 

[Bad_Boy]

polys are not important in this discussion because the difference between the two ports is reported as texturing details on the models
simple as it is

I could of sworn we were talking about table tennis vs VT3 a moment ago.

 

[Skrying]

I just wanna know why you guys are getting so riled up and angry over this, the games are not even done yet.

Because forums are filled with lots of angry ******s? This console forum is actually worse than any other forum here at Beyond3D. But that aside.

The games are being done by two different development houses. There is going to be a difference, no matter what really. Neither game honestly pushes the PS3 or Xbox 360 and there's no point at all in getting so heated about the point.

Its hard to even tell what people are fighting over in this thread. Xbox 360 vs PS3? More like ****** vs ******. Frankly the game is not an accurate gauge of what the systems can do and again frankly none of the games any of us are looking forward to at this point are. Like most consoles, over time the graphics will improve and become a limitation of the developer and how efficent he/she can make their code.

Lol, people fighting over which company they love more when both get shafted on a daily basis by both. Makes you wonder...

 

[pakotlar]

gpu <-ram and cpu<-ram bandwidth in modern consoles is one of the worse problems for a dev together with limited memory space

No kidding, that's my point. Both the PS3 and the X360 have very similar bandwidth capabilities, with the PS3 edging out the X360 in terms of pure access speeds, but the X360 probably having overall greater bandwidth due to UMA + L.Dram architecture (no framebuffer effect penalties, AA doesn't impact 22 GB/s, etc). And from all current reports, X360 has more available and easily accessible memory for textures (the CPU side 256MB on PS3 afaik carries latency penalties). So I really doubt that the PS3 simply has a greater capability to render high res textures. As I said, you can bet that this comes down to marketing or a lack of dev skill on the part of the x360 team. Of course it could be a case that the x360 project is simply further behind at this point. Look at the new Madden PS3 vs X360 at E3. X360 version blew the PS3 version out of the water, simply because the project was way further along.

 

[dskneo]

famitsu VT3 ps3 scan (cant read jap but thats the word on the street)

http://www.famitsu.com/game/coming/2006/08/23/104,1156331378,58917,0,0.html

 

[inefficient]

It says star players like Federer, Sharapova (Shara-po-chan) & Davenport are comming to Power Smash3 PS3.

Edited... Smacks head... I just realized Power Smash and Virtual Tennis are the same game!!