Toshiba: BDA's victory claim "propaganda", sales figures "distorted" by BDA promos

[quest55720]

The free Hd-DVDs don't count in the sales totals because they never go through a PoS computer.

While sony has the upper hand hd-dvd has one last chance this fall to make a stand. Get a player under 250 preferable 199 and sell a bunch of stand alone players to combat the PS3. The way things look right now blue ray will win but if they can't get the cost of a stand alone player down some time in the next 9-12 months they are leaving the door open for HD-DVD to drag this out for a while.

 

[Hypx]

When comparing same titles, BR sales are on par with HD DVD despite PS3.

Bluray disks tend to sell for longer periods of time at a high rate, at least according to amazon rankings. Several movies sold at a higher rate on HD-DVD for a short period but it flipped shortly thereafter.

 

[Capeta]

Bluray disks tend to sell for longer periods of time at a high rate, at least according to amazon rankings. Several movies sold at a higher rate on HD-DVD for a short period but it flipped shortly thereafter.

Uh yeah whatever you say Mr. HypX man.

 

[Rolf N]

Happy Feet for one.

So it's not "When comparing same titles", but rather "When looking at a few hand-picked titles" that HD DVD isn't outclassed. Don't you think that's a difference worth mentioning?

 

[patsu]

Some good news for Blu-ray:
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/new...ale_Blu-ray_Breaks_100,000_Unit_Milestone/544

 

[Mariner]

Not sure if it's relevant to the figures quoted in your post or not, but here in the UK, Casino Royale has been bundled for free with the PS3.

I have two friends who both bought a PS3 last week and both received CR as part of the bundle. FWIW, they say the quality of the BD Casino Royale is excellent.

 

[patsu]

It breaks a sales number, so bundled ones do not count.
Otherwise, Talledega Night would have broken the record when PS3 launched in US.

 

[Capeta]

 

[Geo]

Yeah, the "DVD Wars" site is showing some evidence that the "PS3 bump" was a temporary phenomenon rather than an accelerating separation trend. . . It looks very neck and neck at the moment.

 

[Bobbler]

Yeah, the "DVD Wars" site is showing some evidence that the "PS3 bump" was a temporary phenomenon rather than an accelerating separation trend. . . It looks very neck and neck at the moment.

I wouldn't say that... the sales rank overall of the average title is still far better than it used to be and there hasn't really been a downturn (outside of normalizing after that sale on old FOX/Magnolia titles)... I'd say it's more than there's been a couple releases on HD DVD last week, so people bought them (compared to several dry weeks in a row -- some pent up demand perhaps?). The whole average sales rank thing is kind of a fudgy metric on the small scale.

I'm kind of curious how the neilsen numbers will turn out for the week of the 27th though (this week). Amazon shows both sides pretty close this week (certainly closer than any previous week in a long time), but amazon isn't exactly going to be the same as B&M stores, necessarily (and it's hard to tell anything but "this is selling better than that" on amazon with the way the ranking system works -- averaging rankings won't get you anything usable, really).

 

[Sound_Card]

I heard 300 will be comming out for HDDVD. Is this true? I also heard that the Lord of the rings is comming out for HDDVD. This should greatly turn the tide if true.

 

[Geo]

Well, surely the baseline moved up for BR. But that there was a large element of "one time" as well also seems to be the case. Several of those charts don't just show HD DVD coming up, they show BR getting the big bump, and then trending down to a baseline that is 1) higher than it was before PS3 (Well, yes, of course!) and 2) Not nearly as high as the "peak" of the bump.

 

[Bobbler]

Well, surely the baseline moved up for BR. But that there was a large element of "one time" as well also seems to be the case. Several of those charts don't just show HD DVD coming up, they show BR getting the big bump, and then trending down to a baseline that is 1) higher than it was before PS3 (Well, yes, of course!) and 2) Not nearly as high as the "peak" of the bump.

Just curious... which bump are you talking about? (what week did it happen on those graphs?)

I've not seen any evidence that the "PS3" effect was just a one time thing. I suggest you look for the neilsen numbers (avs forum has a thread on them), as the only conclusion you can come up with that, is the "PS3 effect" is still in effect (with YTD ratios of BR:HD DVD being 100:42 up to the week of the 3/25).

Amazon rankings include preorders and are relative sales with a non linear scale that decays over time based on continued sales (which means their uses are pretty limited in comparing formats outside of "at this point, title x is doing better than title y and z")... it has been a disaster to figure out anything on the small scale with those numbers -- over time you could make some conclusions on trends, but in the face of getting statistics from Neilsen every week (even they are hard to decode fully, as you can see in the avs forum thread), amazon numbers are looking increasingly boring and irrelevant. Amazon rankings were fun at the time, since they were all we had to go by.

 

[ban25]

Well, surely the baseline moved up for BR. But that there was a large element of "one time" as well also seems to be the case. Several of those charts don't just show HD DVD coming up, they show BR getting the big bump, and then trending down to a baseline that is 1) higher than it was before PS3 (Well, yes, of course!) and 2) Not nearly as high as the "peak" of the bump.

The peak your talking about was a 50% off sale on Amazon...

 

[patsu]

I clicked "Show all" in the chart Capeta embedded (Sales rank of top 10 products), but couldn't find any bump after PS3 launched. The up-trend started before PS3 was launched (probably when the BR camp released AVC, VC-1 and dual layer discs ?).

Sales rank chart is not necessarily a good indicator of overall sales volume (since we'd always have spike due to new releases). Is there a place where we can find the total sales volume ? The so-called PS3 effect should be more noticeable from that perspective (if at all).

PS3 does not have 720p Blu-ray viewing (yet). And Europeans just got their first batch of PS3s, so performances for the following weeks and months would be more interesting.

 

[ban25]

PS3 does not have 720p Blu-ray viewing (yet). And Europeans just got their first batch of PS3s, so performances for the following weeks and months would be more interesting.

I doubt there are displays out there that will handle 720p but not 1080p/i.

 

[Rangers]

If you go to eproduct wars.com it seems HDDVD is really coming up strong again on Blu-Ray.

The top HDDVD (BBC Planet Earth ) is 26th, top Blu-ray (Casino Royale) is 44th, and so on.

I dont think Blu Ray is gonna win. The longer this goes the uglier it's gonna get for them.


I'd say if it wasn't for PS3, this war would already be long over in favor of HDDVD. In stand alone players, it's HDDVD by a rout.

I used to wonder if we'd see ads for 299 HDDVD players by this coming up black friday. Now it looks like they'll be 199 if not lower, the way the price is dropping.

 

[patsu]

I doubt there are displays out there that will handle 720p but not 1080p/i.

I don't know what the number is but I have been hearing some complains here and there like this one:
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/746/746492p2.html

On the same token, because PS3 cannot scale images up or down currently, owners of HDTVs that are capable of 720p resolutions but not 10800i images will see their Blu-Ray movies kicked down to 480p because the system can only output BD-ROM videos at 1080i/p and 480i/p. This cases is less troublesome overall than the 1080i-only issue, as most 720p-limited TVs tend to still have scaling abilities built in to convert the video (while most 1080i-limited TVs are either too old to know what a 720p signal is or else just have no means of displaying that resolution because of the screen's technology.) However, for those who have TVs truly limited to 720p, all you get is 480p. And for those whose HDTVs can play 1080i but are optimized for 720p, you don't have the option to watch your movies in the best-possible resolution for your TV set.

If you go to eproduct wars.com it seems HDDVD is really coming up strong again on Blu-Ray.

The top HDDVD (BBC Planet Earth ) is 26th, top Blu-ray (Casino Royale) is 44th, and so on.

I dont think Blu Ray is gonna win. The longer this goes the uglier it's gonna get for them.

Casino Royale (#44) was on sale earlier than BBC Planet Earth (#26) and broke 100,000 units.
When the former was first released, it was in top 10 (or very close).

I think it's better to compare BBC Planet Earth on both Blu-ray (#71) and HD-DVD (#26), and The Departed Blu-ray (#221) and HD-DVD (#508). Doesn't really say much yet. Should look at total sales volume across a "long enough" period.

I'd say if it wasn't for PS3, this war would already be long over in favor of HDDVD. In stand alone players, it's HDDVD by a rout.

I used to wonder if we'd see ads for 299 HDDVD players by this coming up black friday. Now it looks like they'll be 199 if not lower, the way the price is dropping.

We shall see.

 

[ban25]

If you go to eproduct wars.com it seems HDDVD is really coming up strong again on Blu-Ray.

The question is: what are you going to watch on your $199 HD DVD player (if they go that low). The answer, as you've given it, a British TV documentary.

 

[Ike Turner]

The question is: what are you going to watch on your $199 HD DVD player (if they go that low). The answer, as you've given it, a British TV documentary.

Now that was some nice trolling!