The new PS3 sales pitch: Better gaming, better technology, better value

[Carl B]

But you can manufacture these discs on standard DVD lines, right? This would allow Sony to declare that all games are on Blu-ray without having to give up production capacity to these games this Christmas.

This makes even more sense if the inital games don't need more than 8 gigs, which they likely won't.

I wonder though. I mean maybe... But Sony DADC has begun to ramp up it's BD-ROM production lines in part due to game preparation, so I wonder if Sony might not just go straight BD-ROM. But if the BD-9 discs were non-readable by standard DVD drives - which they shouldn't be - then I guess it could sort of be a loophole way of Sony claiming BD exclusive games while maintaining a strong anti-piracy measure. Still, I almost just think they're going to go all BD-ROM. Maybe not though.

 

[TheChefO]

But you can manufacture these discs on standard DVD lines, right? This would allow Sony to declare that all games are on Blu-ray without having to give up production capacity to these games this Christmas.

This makes even more sense if the inital games don't need more than 8 gigs, which they likely won't.

psuedo BR then? are these discs compatible with standard dvd players?? If so this could be a huge win for Sony. Ideally I think this scenario would be perfect for them:

release all games on this br9 format & Dont require hd support but enable if there. Launch ps3 with br hd etc.

xmas 2007 release a core ps3 that has a standard dvdrom, wired controller and no hdd for <$300 - $200

It would play all the games released up to that point and beyond (realistically br isn't necessary this gen) but with potentially slower loading times (hdd)

Include the ability to upgrade if necessary and you please everyone. Bluray is established - early adopters don't feel cheated because they still have the "premium" system. And sony gets to grow the installed base very rapidly again.

 

[Sis]

I wonder though. I mean maybe... But Sony DADC has begun to ramp up it's BD-ROM production lines in part due to game preparation, so I wonder if Sony might not just go straight BD-ROM. But if the BD-9 discs were non-readable by standard DVD drives - which they shouldn't be - then I guess it could sort of be a loophole way of Sony claiming BD exclusive games while maintaining a strong anti-piracy measure. Still, I almost just think they're going to go all BD-ROM. Maybe not though.

The DADC lines aren't doing too great, from what I read but maybe that will be fixed in time for PS3 launch.

Here's a good read on replication issues, including costs:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=678710&page=1&pp=30

 

[Sis]

psuedo BR then? are these discs compatible with standard dvd players?? If so this could be a huge win for Sony. Ideally I think this scenario would be perfect for them:

release all games on this br9 format & Dont require hd support but enable if there. Launch ps3 with br hd etc.

xmas 2007 release a core ps3 that has a standard dvdrom, wired controller and no hdd for <$300 - $200

It would play all the games released up to that point and beyond (realistically br isn't necessary this gen) but with potentially slower loading times (hdd)

Include the ability to upgrade if necessary and you please everyone. Bluray is established - early adopters don't feel cheated because they still have the "premium" system. And sony gets to grow the installed base very rapidly again.

I really don't think that is likely. If Sony were to go with BD-9, it would be a stop gap measure until they had squared away their production issues. But this is 100% speculation on my part...

 

[TheChefO]

I really don't think that is likely. If Sony were to go with BD-9, it would be a stop gap measure until they had squared away their production issues. But this is 100% speculation on my part...

not likely dependant on how well they sell through after the inital stock. If they stick to this media for the first year however they can always fall back on the plan I outlined as a sever cost cutting measure to ignite sales if they run into sluggish sales.

 

[Sis]

not likely dependant on how well they sell through after the inital stock. If they stick to this media for the first year however they can always fall back on the plan I outlined as a sever cost cutting measure to ignite sales if they run into sluggish sales.

Interesting thought--if they did keep all games to the BD-9 disc, then they could release a cheaper version...

 

[TheChefO]

Interesting thought--if they did keep all games to the BD-9 disc, then they could release a cheaper version...

indeed - does anyone know of a ps3 game that is going to be using more than 8-9gb within the first year?

 

[Carl B]

Ok seriously, those BD costs are like $2 a disc or less; that's even stated in that thread you linked me to Sis!

No one's saving 'mad money' on BD-9 over BD-ROM. BUT, that was an interesting read nonetheless. Indeed there seem like there may be ramp issues in the BD replication lines. Maybe/hopefully they'll be worked out by launch, but if not, well... I mean BD-9 is a possibility, as are these 20GB 'premature' discs as well. For game purposes, they should both be fine early gen.

 

[TheChefO]

Ok seriously, those BD costs are like $2 a disc or less; that's even stated in that thread you linked me to Sis!

No one's saving 'mad money' on BD-9 over BD-ROM. BUT, that was an interesting read nonetheless. Indeed there seem like there may be ramp issues in the BD replication lines. Maybe/hopefully they'll be worked out by launch, but if not, well... I mean BD-9 is a possibility, as are these 20GB 'premature' discs as well. For game purposes, they should both be fine early gen.

The potential isn't in disc pressing savings but in the potential to release a much cheaper ps3 with a standard dvdrom.

by fall 2007 they will be on a mature 65nm process for cell and rsx and could hit a sub $300 pricepoint with a standard dvd. By doing this (the reverse of peripheral add-on) they can nullify one of the major advantages of their competition.

This could be huge for them.

 

[Sis]

Ok seriously, those BD costs are like $2 a disc or less; that's even stated in that thread you linked me to Sis!

No one's saving 'mad money' on BD-9 over BD-ROM. BUT, that was an interesting read nonetheless. Indeed there seem like there may be ramp issues in the BD replication lines. Maybe/hopefully they'll be worked out by launch, but if not, well... I mean BD-9 is a possibility, as are these 20GB 'premature' discs as well. For game purposes, they should both be fine early gen.

I'm not talking about saving money, but saving production capacity in the short term.

I didn't put a lot of stock in the $2 figure, because that would make it cheaper than HD-DVD replication per disc, though the mastering is about 20 times higher. But regardless, I didn't think it was a direct Sony source giving out the info.

 

[Carl B]

The potential isn't in disc pressing savings but in the potential to release a much cheaper ps3 with a standard dvdrom.

by fall 2007 they will be on a mature 65nm process for cell and rsx and could hit a sub $300 pricepoint with a standard dvd. By doing this (the reverse of peripheral add-on) they can nullify one of the major advantages of their competition.

This could be huge for them.

Well, neither me nor Sis is talking about a standard DVD ROM drive. I mean the fact that it's going to be BD equipped is a forgone conclusion. We're just talking the media used.

 

[Carl B]

I'm not talking about saving money, but saving production capacity in the short term.

I didn't put a lot of stock in the $2 figure, because that would make it cheaper than HD-DVD replication per disc, though the mastering is about 20 times higher. But regardless, I didn't think it was a direct Sony source giving out the info.

Well sure, I agree that $2 figure could be anywhere. The mastering costs I think/hope Sony will just eat for the publishers for a the beginning, but I see where you're coming from on the capacity saving.

 

[TheChefO]

Well, neither me nor Sis is talking about a standard DVD ROM drive. I mean the fact that it's going to be BD equipped is a forgone conclusion. We're just talking the media used.

You don't think there's any potential to meet low entry price points with this method?

 

[mckmas8808]

The potential isn't in disc pressing savings but in the potential to release a much cheaper ps3 with a standard dvdrom.

by fall 2007 they will be on a mature 65nm process for cell and rsx and could hit a sub $300 pricepoint with a standard dvd. By doing this (the reverse of peripheral add-on) they can nullify one of the major advantages of their competition.

This could be huge for them.

TheChef man please! So if I buy one of these Blu-rayless PS3s how would I be able to play GT5 if it's has 11GBs of info on it?

 

[Carl B]

You don't think there's any potential to meet low entry price points with this method?

Well... I mean I'm not sure what you're asking. The answer would theoretically be yes of course, but how in the world would the system play games when they actually do get released on BD-ROMs?

Incidently however, even though the BD-9 discs are red-laser and cheaper to make, they still require a BD-ROM/player drive to read, so the thrust of the case in this specific instance is moot anyway.

 

[TheChefO]

Well... I mean I'm not sure what you're asking. The answer would theoretically be yes of course, but how in the world would the system play games when they actually do get released on BD-ROMs?

Incidently however, even though the BD-9 discs are red-laser and cheaper to make, they still require a BD-ROM/player drive to read, so the thrust of the case in this specific instance is moot anyway.

Ahh well ... indeed that renders the thought useless ... unless they were to release the first wave (12mos) on dvd ( yes I know they said they wouldn't but you never know ... plans can change).


Mckmass - the point is realistically ps3 is in a better position to uncompress data on the fly than 360, and that system currently does this in a few games already. the concept is you never release a game on anything other than dvd and you leave that path open for a "core" ps3 dvd based system which could then cost match 360 at a very early state without pissing off the early adaptors.

 

[mckmas8808]

Mckmass - the point is realistically ps3 is in a better position to uncompress data on the fly than 360, and that system currently does this in a few games already. the concept is you never release a game on anything other than dvd and you leave that path open for a "core" ps3 dvd based system which could then cost match 360 at a very early state without pissing off the early adaptors.

But see that's the problem. I want games to be released on Blu-ray disc. I want 12 GB games.

 

[Tap In]

But see that's the problem. I want games to be released on Blu-ray disc. I want 12 GB games.

I'm sure we'll see it, just maybe not 12GB of "original" content. Meaning we'll see it used for faster access to data and as Sony has already said muliple regions on the same disc.

It takes an awful lot of money/time to create those original games assets and the devs are already stretched to the limit.

I'll be interested in marking my calendar when the first dev says they "needed" it to put content on (besides FMV) Not saying it won't happen, I'm just curious as to when it will be necessary.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm sure we'll see it, just maybe not 12GB of "original" content. Meaning we'll see it used for faster access to data and as Sony has already said muliple regions on the same disc.

It takes an awful lot of money/time to create those original games assets and the devs are already stretched to the limit.

I'll be interested in marking my calendar when the first dev says they "needed" it to put content on (besides FMV) Not saying it won't happen, I'm just curious as to when it will be necessary.

Honestly isn't that one good reason for games to be on Blu-ray disc?

 

[Tap In]

Honestly isn't that one good reason for games to be on Blu-ray disc?

sure.

with a slow drive you need faster access some other way.

see what I did there?


No, of course it's not bad to have Blu Ray discs for games. You'd have to be an idiot to find fault with it (besides the streaming speed) but is it necessary in the next 3-4 years by which time I expect MS to push their next system?

jury still out