The new PS3 sales pitch: Better gaming, better technology, better value

[mckmas8808]

sure.

with a slow drive you need faster access some other way.

see what I did there?


No, of course it's not bad to have Blu Ray discs for games. You'd have to be an idiot to find fault with it (besides the streaming speed) but is it necessary in the next 3-4 years by which time I expect MS to push their next system?

jury still out

No I was talking about the multiregion language thing. Isn't that a good thing to have? And I don't think it will be a matter of not being able to make the games on 7.4 GB DVDs, but what the 50 GB BDs will do that wouldn't have been done on a DVD.

Of course the core game can be done on DVDs, but it's the extra things that devs will do that I'm excited about.

 

[Tap In]

No I was talking about the multiregion language thing. Isn't that a good thing to have? And I don't think it will be a matter of not being able to make the games on 7.4 GB DVDs, but what the 50 GB BDs will do that wouldn't have been done on a DVD.

Of course the core game can be done on DVDs, but it's the extra things that devs will do that I'm excited about.

no doubt

the media size allows more options some uses for which may not even have been discovered yet.

 

[TheChefO]

I'm sure we'll see it, just maybe not 12GB of "original" content. Meaning we'll see it used for faster access to data and as Sony has already said muliple regions on the same disc.

It takes an awful lot of money/time to create those original games assets and the devs are already stretched to the limit.

I'll be interested in marking my calendar when the first dev says they "needed" it to put content on (besides FMV) Not saying it won't happen, I'm just curious as to when it will be necessary.

For these reasons they COULD release on dvd - perhaps even include bothversion on dual sided disc. My point about the option of dvd is it does not significantly harm their marketing targets for ps3, but it could significantly help them.

 

[mckmas8808]

For these reasons they COULD release on dvd - perhaps even include bothversion on dual sided disc. My point about the option of dvd is it does not significantly harm their marketing targets for ps3, but it could significantly help them.

Dude they can't/wont make a DVD PS3. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Arwin]

I'll be interested in marking my calendar when the first dev says they "needed" it to put content on (besides FMV) Not saying it won't happen, I'm just curious as to when it will be necessary.

Already happened, see the other thread on this topic.

 

[TheChefO]

Dude they can't/wont make a DVD PS3. It doesn't make sense.

Why doesn't it make sense? Because people want larger games and Sony has promised them? I think most people with a level head here on this forum realize that outside of a handful of rpgs, The storage space offered by bluray is not neccasary for the foreseable future (ie this gen). Yes there are things they can do that wouold be convenient for the consumer (no disc swaps, multi language, faster loads based on structuring the disc with duplicated data), BUT THESE ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR GAMES. Are they a benefit? sure. Would I like them on my system? sure. Would I pay for this benefit? sure. But as it is right now THEY ARE NOT GIVING THE CONSUMER THIS CHOICE.

A <$200 ps3 dvd option, released after they have had a huge (7-10mil) install base makes perfect sense for them as long as they enforce dvd only at the begining.

Honestly I have no idea why I'm campaigning so hard for this concept as I'm kind of enjoying the potential for Sony to sweat it out a bit this gen. nm

 

[mckmas8808]

Your trying so hard because you are forcing developers like Polyphony, Square, Capcom, etc to use DVDs forever. How does this actually make sense to you? I mean you admit that there are benefits for using Blu-ray disc. That much I can see.

But for some reason you just want to throw all of that out of the door for a fictional $200 PS3. Anyways how knows how much a DVD only PS3 would cost. Probably closer to at least $350, so to me it's not worth it.

And on top of that, it doesn't help Sony and the other companies in the Blu-ray Assoication along with the movie studios for Sony to sell a DVD only PS3.

 

[PeterT]

I think most people with a level head here on this forum realize that outside of a handful of rpgs,

I consider myself quite level-headed, but what if I would tell you that I'll shell out the (sure to be exorbitant still) price for PS3 somewhere in late 2007 exactly for those few RPGs?

THEY ARE NOT GIVING THE CONSUMER THIS CHOICE.

Giving them this "choice" would entail an extreme system configuration fragmentation that would be far worse even than MS' non-HDD/HDD one. Also, let's state the obvious here, it would run completely against Sony's overall BluRay strategy.

 

[TheChefO]

I consider myself quite level-headed, but what if I would tell you that I'll shell out the (sure to be exorbitant still) price for PS3 somewhere in late 2007 exactly for those few RPGs?

Also, let's state the obvious here, it would run completely against Sony's overall BluRay strategy.

The rpgs that need more space could always be released on multi dvd. Not to mention the fact that the ps3 is a perfect format for heavy decompression on the fly.

as far as Bluray strategy. All they are looking to do on that front is ensure that they beat hd-dvd for market dominance early. This will be accomplished not by bluray games but by selling through a massive amount of ps3's early (6mil or so). Once that is accomlished the NEED for having a bluray enabled ps3 is gone. The desire is still there and those that want hd movies at that point will have one very obvious choice: the br ps3. Come fall 2007 hd-dvd will still be there but will be massively dwarfed by br media and competitively priced br players (and ps3). One that part of their strategy is set they can seek other alternatives for price cutting IF they leave the door open for themselves.

The overall cost issue of ps3 being more expensive than 360 is directly tied to Br and HDD. Basicly adopt the strategy that has got them to this point when the bluray war is won and then they can fight the games war.

But like I said -I'll congratulate them if they see the light, but I'll enjoy seeing them sweat a bit if things don't go as planned as well.

 

[_phil_]

no need to make an rpg to fill a blue ray disk.just ask Deano ,or nao...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The rpgs that need more space could always be released on multi dvd. Not to mention the fact that the ps3 is a perfect format for heavy decompression on the fly.

Compression has come up elsewhere. There isn't a lot more room to compress data beyond what it's already being compressed to. eg. The difference between a medium compression scheme and an intense compression scheme on lossless formats is all of 10% in many cases. The only ay to get substanitally more compression is to go lossy. Plus performance decompressing isn't a massive leap up from ERP's findings. The idea that next-gen can get more onto DVDs through the use of new and more ferocious compression isn't really valid. There was a lengthy discussion on this, comparing it to current PC games and efficient use of diskspace. You might want to search for that to see what info has already been covered.

 

[mckmas8808]

as far as Bluray strategy. All they are looking to do on that front is ensure that they beat hd-dvd for market dominance early. This will be accomplished not by bluray games but by selling through a massive amount of ps3's early (6mil or so). Once that is accomlished the NEED for having a bluray enabled ps3 is gone. The desire is still there and those that want hd movies at that point will have one very obvious choice: the br ps3. Come fall 2007 hd-dvd will still be there but will be massively dwarfed by br media and competitively priced br players (and ps3). One that part of their strategy is set they can seek other alternatives for price cutting IF they leave the door open for themselves.

The overall cost issue of ps3 being more expensive than 360 is directly tied to Br and HDD. Basicly adopt the strategy that has

I would think over time the cost of the Blu-ray componets will decrease alot, while the cost of the HDD would stay kind of high. Why don't you want Sony to pull out the HDD instead?

 

[TheChefO]

Compression has come up elsewhere. There isn't a lot more room to compress data beyond what it's already being compressed to. eg. The difference between a medium compression scheme and an intense compression scheme on lossless formats is all of 10% in many cases. The only ay to get substanitally more compression is to go lossy. Plus performance decompressing isn't a massive leap up from ERP's findings. The idea that next-gen can get more onto DVDs through the use of new and more ferocious compression isn't really valid. There was a lengthy discussion on this, comparing it to current PC games and efficient use of diskspace. You might want to search for that to see what info has already been covered.

Thanks for the info Shifty - however I still stand by the thought that If Sony Called everyone of their developers today and told them to target dvd instead of Bluray none of them would say "well Sony - That means I can't make the game I was intending to make on your system so I will have to cancel that project." The worse that would happen is it would span multiple disks.

mckmas - indeed bluray will get cheaper by the year - and at some point it will be very close to the cost of implementing dvd. However that isn't the case now or even a year from now. As for hdd - I said they should drop that for the core system as well. Sure, have the developers support it if its there but leave this as an option to the consumer come 2007 along with bluray.

They lose nothing from this plan that I have laid out but can gain significant marketshare.

 

[mckmas8808]

mckmas - indeed bluray will get cheaper by the year - and at some point it will be very close to the cost of implementing dvd. However that isn't the case now or even a year from now. As for hdd - I said they should drop that for the core system as well. Sure, have the developers support it if its there but leave this as an option to the consumer come 2007 along with bluray.

They lose nothing from this plan that I have laid out but can gain significant marketshare.

They also what everyone to have a HDD, so people can use their other money on downloadable content. They don't want people to spend $50+ on a HDD and not spending it on extra content be it XBLA games or movie and music previews (free of course) to support their own movie and music studios.

Having the ability to download Sony's movie previews like Spiderman 3, Da Vinci code, etc and music previews from Beyonce and others is sort of like free advertising. If I were to listen to 3 Beyonce songs with my girl she might be impressed and want to buy the CD.

This can only work if Sony knows that everyone has a HDD. If everyone didn't have one then obviously that would be less previews downloaded. Which means less chances of videogame consumers to buy the CD or purchase a movie ticket.

 

[TheChefO]

This can only work if Sony knows that everyone has a HDD. QUOTE]

Not true - just because you have the hdd and the built-in wifi and the built in gigabit ethernet doesn't mean you are connected to the internet or that you want to connect to the internet. If you want it, you'll buy it. For me the downloads that ms is offering to demo games etc is very compelling and a reason I got the premium pack over the core (among other reasons but you get the point).

 

[mckmas8808]

This can only work if Sony knows that everyone has a HDD. QUOTE]

Not true - just because you have the hdd and the built-in wifi and the built in gigabit ethernet doesn't mean you are connected to the internet or that you want to connect to the internet. If you want it, you'll buy it. For me the downloads that ms is offering to demo games etc is very compelling and a reason I got the premium pack over the core (among other reasons but you get the point).

Let's switch a few words around okay.

Not true - just because you have a Blu-ray drive doesn't mean you are going to have a HDTV and want to watch HD movies. See what I did there?

Point being if they know you have it, there's more of a possibility that person will use it instead of buying extra equipment.

 

[TheChefO]

Let's switch a few words around okay.

Not true - just because you have a Blu-ray drive doesn't mean you are going to have a HDTV and want to watch HD movies. See what I did there?

Point being if they know you have it, there's more of a possibility that person will use it instead of buying extra equipment.

True and the early adopters fit this mold to a T. A good portion of them will use every feature of the ps3. The problem is when they try to sell outside of this high end crowd (fall 2007).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If you want it, you'll buy it.

(Anecdotal evidence alert) I've considered going online for some games with friends on PS2, but that'd mean needing a Network adapter and faffing about connecting it to a router via Ethernet - in the end it's not worth the effort to me. But if PS2 came with wireless connectivity as standard, I'd be giving it a go.

Providing features ahead of demand can help create demand. Who was asking for photo abilities in their mobile phone? No-one I know of, but the companies stuck it in anyway and now it's doing pretty well. If networking is inbuilt, there's a chance, a good one, of users with no previous interest giving it a go, because it's part of the value of the machine they have bought and they're curious, and from that, if you provide a good service, a percentage will be introduced to your new market. If I were in Sony's shoes, I'd be adding those network and storage features from the off too. I wouldn't want users thinking to themselves "Am I likely to want to buy extra content, is it worth $50-$100 of extra hardware?" and talking themselves out of it!

 

[nelg]

Acert,

You should add "Better Rootkit" to your list.

I kid, I kid.

 

[Acert93]

Acert,

You should add "Better Rootkit" to your list.

I kid, I kid.

Haha good one!

I kind of got out of the loop and realized people misunderstood the thread somewhat. It was intended to be ideas on how Sony can, or will, try to promote the PS3 now and through launch and beyond -- and pluses and draw backs. Mine was only fodder Q&A on responses. Kind of like the Shane Kim and Peter Moore interviews for MS.

I liked Blajedi's point of a check list. That is an easy, graphical, and quick way to give percieved value. They could even if it as a little flip-flop pamphlet. Large checklist on one side, and more detail on each point on the inside. But right now it is a moot point as most of the PR now will be from early adopters. Sony is gonna sell all 6M initial units so I am thinking their focus may be shifting to, "What do we do come April 1st?"

They have a LOT to do until launch; launches are hardwork!

Anyhow, glad everyone enjoyed the thread. It was, as XBD and Shifty said, just a mental exercise. Some constructive analysis of the industry.

And for the couple posters who got upset at my FUD: Note the word PR in the initial post and "sales pitch" I think I did a good job of staying in the fair realm of misinformation, leading, and wink wink nudge nudge :smile: Part of PR is believing your product and being ignorant and forgetful of the competition unless it is relevant to your advantages!