The new PS3 sales pitch: Better gaming, better technology, better value

[Arwin]

"Well, the system will do well at launch, probably well for sometime after that,"

Why? the only thing the PS3 has going for it is the sony name. I honestly can't see a large portion of people paying that kind of price when the 360 looks as good and is 200$ cheaper sitting right next to it on the shelves.

Son'y can't even fully explain why we should spend the extra 200$ on their system.

"when the 360 looks as good and is 200$ cheaper", "The extra $200" ... we get it. Remember how when the 360 came out, the lack of HD on the cheaper module was ridiculed? At least Sony didn't make that mistake. The $299 version is irrelevant, and the $399 version of the 360 is very clearly up against the $499 PS3. So stop the $200 trolling already.

"The only thing the PS3 has going for it is the Sony name". The Sony name means the system is guaranteed to be supported for about 10 years, proven over two generations, and is synonymous to a lot of great games for many, many people (compare that to the Xbox for which production stopped last year already).

Ah, why do I bother.

 

[TheChefO]

Well Chef-O, how they do it is quite relevent, because to tell you the truth unless you've got a great plan for them, I don't see how they can. When the majority of JRPGs are targeted first and formost at the domestic market, why in the world would these devs give 360 equal weighting when it commands such a small perentage of that market? MS funding will be the only means I can envision of bringing this about for quite some time.

EDIT: Ok and to your next post, well if you read the first two posts of this thread and disagree with them still, then Sony will probably not convince you any better. If the games that launch in 2007, 2008, whatever end up convincing you on their own though, then ironically Sony indeed does not have to convince you to begin with; it's just a matter of time for you.

The effort Ms gives in the Japanese market will gauge how far they can go this generation. If they went as far as to buy the rights to a FF/Dragon quest exclusive NOW that might do it or they could buy 3 or 4 dev houses that pump out quaility titles in Japan that people there respect and follow that might do the trick. The thing is right now in Japan the people there have every reason not to waste their money on it for maybe one or two unknown titles (blue dragon). Give them the freedom to choose (gta4) with simultaneous (or near) release of FF or Dragon Quest and then you can build the rest.

There are no other features I want from a games machine than to play games. I have a media center pc in the livingroom that does everything I need on that front.

ALL I want from ps3 are TOP NOTCH GAMES that justify the price. If not, drop the excess features and drop the price as well.

 

[TheChefO]

"The Sony name means the system is guaranteed to be supported for about 10 years, proven over two generations, and is synonymous to a lot of great games for many, many people.

[1995 Nintendo] "you were saying?"

 

[Serenity Painted Death]

Proof of FFXIII in 2008? It isn't as if development just started (even if it has just recently been moved to PS3).

While the intermission between X/X-2 and XII has been HUGE, this is quite an aberration as far as the series is concerned (13 games in 20 years or so). They generally come out a year or two apart, and I would definitely expect the title in 2007.

 

[Carl B]

The effort Ms gives in the Japanese market will gauge how far they can go this generation. If they went as far as to buy the rights to a FF/Dragon quest exclusive NOW that might do it or they could buy 3 or 4 dev houses that pump out quaility titles in Japan that people there respect and follow that might do the trick. The thing is right now in Japan the people there have every reason not to waste their money on it for maybe one or two unknown titles (blue dragon). Give them the freedom to choose (gta4) with simultaneous (or near) release of FF or Dragon Quest and then you can build the rest.

There are no other features I want from a games machine than to play games. I have a media center pc in the livingroom that does everything I need on that front.

ALL I want from ps3 are TOP NOTCH GAMES that justify the price. If not, drop the excess features and drop the price as well.

Chef-O it's kind of amusing to debate this with you because there seems the entire time this feeling of your inevitable purchase of the machine.

Listen but that said, I agree that if they bought '3 or 4' dev houses or secured Dragon Quest IX exclusively or something, that could definitely do it. But they're not going to do that, because for one I'd be shocked if the Japanese side of the equation would acede to it, and two MS has money to spend, but the bankroll isn't limitless. Home and Entertainment works off it's own budget - its not like they've got a bee-line to the cash horde.

To boot, if they were going to do it, they probably already would have, rather than spreading however many hundred million around for Mistwalker's games and the other assorted releases/exclusives they've secured.

 

[TheChefO]

Chef-O it's kind of amusing to debate this with you because there seems the entire time this feeling of your inevitable purchase of the machine.

Listen but that said, I agree that if they bought '3 or 4' dev houses or secured Dragon Quest IX exclusively or something, that could definitely do it. But they're not going to do that, because for one I'd be shocked if the Japanese side of the equation would acede to it, and two MS has money to spend, but the bankroll isn't limitless. Home and Entertainment works off it's own budget - its not like they've got a bee-line to the cash horde.

To boot, if they were going to do it, they probably already would have, rather than spreading however many hundred million around for Mistwalker's games and the other assorted releases/exclusives they've secured.

Agree they would/should have done this already however I think they find themselves in a much better position than they feared at this time last year. along with this good fortune comes the ability to do things otherwise thought impossible/improbable.

 

[Carl B]

Agree they would/should have done this already however I think they find themselves in a much better position than they feared at this time last year. along with this good fortune comes the ability to do things otherwise thought impossible/improbable.

Well, I don't know... I mean they say their sales have exceeded their expectations - but I mean they publicly stated their expectations earlier and they were exactly this! So I think that's just some public showmanship on their part - give all news that extra 'gleam' as it were.

I think 360 is poised to do very well this gen though, to be sure... or at least such seems to be the case at the moment.

But Japan... they've spent so much money on Japan over the last several years. I really see the scenario envisaged here as highly unlikely for any number of reasons, both on the 'desires of the developers' part and on MS' willingness to pour money endlessly into Japan. And I was a strong supporter of their launch strategy there, by the way. I thought it was (and has proven to be) high-risk, but there is no denying the importance of the Japanese market, if only as a gateway to J-dev support.

 

[TheChefO]

but there is no denying the importance of the Japanese market, if only as a gateway to J-dev support.

Exactly!! As it is now they have "j-dev support" but one look at frame city killer shows you exactly where they stood/stand in their eyes. I'm not saying they need it to be competitive, I'm saying they need it if they want to lead. They have a genuine opportunity to lead this gen IF THEY ACT NOW. Otherwise it will be largely the same as it was last gen.

This must frustrate ms so much considering the high rate of extreme broadband across Japan which could enable live to truly strut its stuff in the land of the rising sun. Not just in gaming but for games, music, movies, etc. Either go hard or go home!

 

[Arwin]

[1995 Nintendo] "you were saying?"

Ha ha, as if that's in any way comparable. I could as easily say that Xbox sticking with DVD is going to do to the 360 what keeping the Cartridge did for the N64.

 

[Carl B]

Exactly!! As it is now they have "j-dev support" but one look at frame city killer shows you exactly where they stood/stand in their eyes. I'm not saying they need it to be competitive, I'm saying they need it if they want to lead. They have a genuine opportunity to lead this gen IF THEY ACT NOW. Otherwise it will be largely the same as it was last gen.

This must frustrate ms so much considering the high rate of extreme broadband across Japan which could enable live to truly strut its stuff in the land of the rising sun. Not just in gaming but for games, music, movies, etc. Either go hard or go home!

Chef-O I think we're starting to go in circles, but what I'm saying is of course they want it, but wanting it doesn't automaticaly make it possible. I want to be the Empress of China, y'know? What!?! Right - small liklihood for any number of reasons.

I don't think if MS fails in Japan it will be for any lack of effort or financial expenditure on their part; there are simply realistic limits to what can be considered probable after a certain point. I think honestly that the 360's fate in Japan is more or less already sealed, but they've got the Mistwalker games left to release and post-E3 could still give a boost to their sales, so let's just wait and see.

I think you see this 'golden opportunity' lying in front of them, if they could just will to power. But that opportunity you're seeing in truth isn't there at all. There's no SquareEnix super-exclusive coming their way, no Capcom buyout... it'll be straight-up trench warfare for every percentage point they eek out in Japan, and the enemy is in fortified positions.

 

[swanlee]

"Ha ha, as if that's in any way comparable. I could as easily say that Xbox sticking with DVD is going to do to the 360 what keeping the Cartridge did for the N64."

Not likely since it was the devs that wanted DVD back. it's a known technology, it cheap to publish, it has faster access times than 2X blu-ray.

If anything Blu-Ray is what is going to hamper the DEVS. Much higher cost to produce each disc, brand new untest technology to the masses.

 

[TheChefO]

Ha ha, as if that's in any way comparable. I could as easily say that Xbox sticking with DVD is going to do to the 360 what keeping the Cartridge did for the N64.

In fact it is - why did developers decide to jump ship? the cost of development. on N the carts were expensive. On ps3 the development, the Bluray media and the system is expensive.

hmm ...

 

[Sovere]

No matter how hard you want to believe otherwise looking at the past will not give you a clear indication of how the next-gen race will turn out. Sure it's helpful at times but in this case it's pretty useless. As a matter of fact it gets quite annoying. I've noticed devs going where the money is. I suppose getting paid for an exclusive is not as lucrative as going multiplatform perhaps it reaches out to a greater audience meaning more money by looking at more potential sales.

 

[TheChefO]

No matter how hard you want to believe otherwise looking at the past will not give you a clear indication of how the next-gen race will turn out. Sure it's helpful at times but in this case it's pretty useless. As a matter of fact it gets quite annoying. I've noticed devs going where the money is. I suppose getting paid for an exclusive is not as lucrative as going multiplatform perhaps it reaches out to a greater audience meaning more money by looking at more potential sales.

Exactly - some people realize this some dont want to believe it. I'm curious what publishers/developers think about change. obviously they don't like it if it's something they didn't predict and they do if their prediction was correct. How many people like to be wrong, and lose money at the same time? hmm ... does anyone have a link to a list of exclusives coming to each system?

 

[Titanio]

In fact it is - why did developers decide to jump ship? the cost of development. on N the carts were expensive. On ps3 the development, the Bluray media and the system is expensive.

I hope you're not seriously drawing an analogy between the two.

Blu-ray is not expensive in absolute terms. It's "slightly" more expensive than a dual layer DVD. Carts were significantly more expensive, provided limiting manufacturing control for publishers, and presented large technical barriers for many developers - which was perhaps more significant than any of the other above factors. PS3 development is not significantly more expensive than the 360 - obviously Wii is cheaper. The system is a little more expensive than 360, probably quite a lot more than Wii. We could alternately point to incidents in the past when various Playstations were more expensive than the competition for alternate analogies here.

I've seen a trend with your early posts, and it seems mostly they hinge on 'ifs and buts'.'If ifs and buts were sugar and nuts'..

does anyone have a link to a list of exclusives coming to each system?

I saw ones for PS3 and Wii recently. PS3 has as many games that bear exclusivity of one kind or another as Wii has in total. In both cases, exclusives make up about half of both systems' catalogues, PS3's is just about twice as large.

 

[Arwin]

"Ha ha, as if that's in any way comparable. I could as easily say that Xbox sticking with DVD is going to do to the 360 what keeping the Cartridge did for the N64."

Not likely since it was the devs that wanted DVD back. it's a known technology, it cheap to publish, it has faster access times than 2X blu-ray.

If anything Blu-Ray is what is going to hamper the DEVS. Much higher cost to produce each disc, brand new untest technology to the masses.

Anything to back that up?

I have Mark Rein (and the 30-40 games that are already announced for the Unreal Engine), PD (for GT), Ninja Theory (for Heavenly Sword), Team Ninja's Itagaki (for DOA), From Software (Enchant Arm) on record of saying that their games will need discs the size of BluRay. What you got?

 

[TheChefO]

I've seen a trend with your early posts, and it seems mostly they hinge on 'ifs and buts'.'If ifs and buts were sugar and nuts'..
.

Just trying to strike some deep unbiased analysis on the situation.

regarding ps3 costs - are you not saying everyone of those that I listed are not more expensive than the competition?

I disagree that dev cost for 360 is the same as ps3 not based on technical merit. Simply based on how Sony is trying to market their machine as the premium gaming experience. This costs time/money. Not saying Ms devs aren't dumping dollars into development of a few blockbuster hopefuls, simply that Sony has the burden of proving the Premium experience for the cost.

I don't expect to change your mind on Sony, simply to debate truths(or as close as we the public can get to the truth) of the situation.

 

[TheChefO]

Anything to back that up?

I have Mark Rein (and the 30-40 games that are already announced for the Unreal Engine), PD (for GT), Ninja Theory (for Heavenly Sword), Team Ninja's Itagaki (for DOA), From Software (Enchant Arm) on record of saying that their games will need discs the size of BluRay. What you got?

Every one of them also saying that the available space will be used for fmv. Which fyi should be done by now. Honestly why are developers still think rendered cut scene this generation when we've seen mgs4, we've seen GOW. Is it necessary to prerender cutscenes anymore?

 

[zRifle1z]

....

EDIT: Ok and to your next post, well if you read the first two posts of this thread and disagree with them still, then Sony will probably not convince you any better. If the games that launch in 2007, 2008, whatever end up convincing you on their own though, then ironically Sony indeed does not have to convince you to begin with; it's just a matter of time for you.

IMHO here is where Sony may have a real problem. I think we can all agree both consoles have compariable graphics. They will both have great games. What I'm suggesting is who will need the longer life cycle for this gen, and who can afford to shorten the life cycle? Which company will be able to move quicker into the next cycle creating as little change as possible for devs, providing more power, services and publisher/developer revenue streams?

p.s. apologize if off topic.

 

[Titanio]

regarding ps3 costs - are you not saying everyone of those that I listed are not more expensive than the competition?

In many cases yes, but not to a very significant degree. The relevance of that anyway is..?

I disagree that dev cost for 360 is the same as ps3 not based on technical merit. Simply based on how Sony is trying to market their machine as the premium gaming experience. This costs time/money. Not saying Ms devs aren't dumping dollars into development of a few blockbuster hopefuls, simply that Sony has the burden of proving the Premium experience for the cost.

Sony can invest as much as they want in their own games, but they certainly can't and don't place any burden on third parties in terms of "you must invest this much in your PS3 projects!". For those parties, 360 and PS3 development costs seem to be roughly in the same ballpark.

BTW, who mentioned anything about bias? Often spontaneous claims of being "unbiased" can be a red flag!