1.5x actually not 3x.
PGR4 doesn't uses HDR in gameplay, but in photomode it does, though PGR3 had HDR in gameplay as well, but it ran at a subHD resolution.
The Game Technology discussion thread *Read first post before posting*
- Thread starter Shifty Geezer
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I dont know if this is right place to post this but Epic just released new video of UE3 improvements.It really looks amazing,cant wait for games to use these new features.Oh yea,new depth of field is sick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGf0oGGGQqQ&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGf0oGGGQqQ&feature=player_embedded
Seems to me that if Polyphony wants to get an easy boost in graphics for next time they just need to do the following:
- Drop the resolution to 1280x720 (max res)
- Max AA should be 2xMSAA in combination with MLAA if possible
- I don't know if texture streaming is in place, but perhaps not quite to the extent of other first parties (racing games are pretty on-rails - should be possible)
- Better shadow filtering should be possible
Of course I don't know if this is at all possible, but dropping 1440x1280 and 720 4xMSAA would free up RSX considerably for these other things I mention.
- Drop the resolution to 1280x720 (max res)
- Max AA should be 2xMSAA in combination with MLAA if possible
- I don't know if texture streaming is in place, but perhaps not quite to the extent of other first parties (racing games are pretty on-rails - should be possible)
- Better shadow filtering should be possible
Of course I don't know if this is at all possible, but dropping 1440x1280 and 720 4xMSAA would free up RSX considerably for these other things I mention.
I dont know if this is right place to post this but Epic just released new video of UE3 improvements.It really looks amazing,cant wait for games to use these new features.Oh yea,new depth of field is sick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGf0oGGGQqQ&feature=player_embedded
You can download latest UDK beta (800MB) which has the map and features and test it out in realtime on your PC. Was going to download UDK right now but I get 30KB/sec so I'll wait to see if connection speed increases tomorrow.
The performance delta between 1280x1080 QAA and 1280x720 4xAA will be interesting to see for them considering what's being drawn. But yeah, dropping an MSAA level in either resolution modes should have helped with the performance budgeting on RSX.
From what I've seen, I doubt MLAA would have helped the final presentation at all. The main things that stick out are the alpha textures and thin objects besides the specular aliasing on cars.
FWIW, Turn10 has a presentation on their streaming tech from GDC10. Worth checking out just to see what sorts of issues can pop-up or need to be solved for a racing title in general.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1012656/Streaming-Massive-Environments-from-0
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Veteran
This screen is of a similar car and same track:
I'm amazed at how wrong PD's rendition of the Laguna Seca is (I mean they do after all go to the lengths of replicating the grafitti on the Nurburgring) - anyone who has been to the track will know that it isn't green.
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&...=G89yGPNdfub1hZf6k2yelQ&cbp=12,194.04,,0,6.58
It's also interesting to note, that despite GT5 using 4xMSAA vs 2x in Forza the differences in aliasing don't seem to be that pronounced, especially on the cars.
Environment detail (geometry, textures) is also far higher in Forza 3 - this is consistent across the comparison shots.
Forza also seems to be using a strong motion blur, hence the blurred out road textures.
The car models themselves don't seem to be much higher poly in GT5, same with the interiors (it should be noted that you can actually change the field of view in F3 to get it similar to GT5's wider cockpit view). Shadow filtering seems to be poor, with very jagged edges on shadows in the cockpit - which somewhat mitigates GT5s more realistic lighting.
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/96/granturismo5_229639b.jpg
I'm amazed at how wrong PD's rendition of the Laguna Seca is (I mean they do after all go to the lengths of replicating the grafitti on the Nurburgring) - anyone who has been to the track will know that it isn't green.
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&...=G89yGPNdfub1hZf6k2yelQ&cbp=12,194.04,,0,6.58
It's also interesting to note, that despite GT5 using 4xMSAA vs 2x in Forza the differences in aliasing don't seem to be that pronounced, especially on the cars.
Environment detail (geometry, textures) is also far higher in Forza 3 - this is consistent across the comparison shots.
Forza also seems to be using a strong motion blur, hence the blurred out road textures.
The car models themselves don't seem to be much higher poly in GT5, same with the interiors (it should be noted that you can actually change the field of view in F3 to get it similar to GT5's wider cockpit view). Shadow filtering seems to be poor, with very jagged edges on shadows in the cockpit - which somewhat mitigates GT5s more realistic lighting.
http://www.gamereactor.se/media/96/granturismo5_229639b.jpg
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Because cars have shader aliasing.
And Laguna Seca really sux in GT 5, its really ugly, looks like GT 4's Laguna Seca in HD, empty environments, bad background, bad 2D line of bushes etc, bad textures - its really ugly.
And about shadows its really funny, but they depend not only on tracks but on parts of tracks also! For example, first section of La Sarthe has quite bad shadows, but later when You pass through forest, they're almost perfect.
And polys looks higher in GT 5, i checked it in photomode, LOD is really good, when in Forza was quite agressive. Interesting thing about Forza was that only 3 cars of 8 had self-shadowing in Photo Mode and with different quality from really good [player car] to really bad.
Ps. New UE 3 presentation is really impressive, I hope for implementation of this build in Mass Effect 3, but BIoware probably disappoint me ;\
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Yeah GT5 is definitely just using a basic 2x2 PCF filter for their shadow maps, which is why they appear so jagged. Forza's filtering is definitely using more taps, and the difference shows. The shadow map texel density also seems to be higher in Forza. In GT5's cockpit view the shadows fade out at a rather short distance, which makes it rather noticeable. It also appears that both games use some sort of basic "ambient occlusion" under the cars, however the effect is much more subtle in GT5 which (I think) makes it more more convincing. In some of the Forza shots it sticks out very clearly and doesn't blend very well with the sunlight shadows.
Cars are actually a combined case - there's a lot of geometry that causes aliasing even with 4xAA, because it's also amplified by the view-dependent strength of the reflections. Surfaces facing towards the camera reflect less then those that are facing to the sides, and car panel edges have sudden shifts which can cause reflectivity to multiply a lot and create very high contrast.
GT5's contrast and road seem to look better though, but it's worth noting that the sun's direction is very different, and the closer it is aligned to the camera the worse the image generally looks.
Also, both games have a lot of various problems on these comparison images in general...
GT5's contrast and road seem to look better though, but it's worth noting that the sun's direction is very different, and the closer it is aligned to the camera the worse the image generally looks.
Also, both games have a lot of various problems on these comparison images in general...
(((interference)))
Veteran
The roads in Forza 3 is actually quite good, but only while stationary - at higher speeds the motion blur affects the texture:
Another example taken at race start
http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/7/9/7/6/3/7/Car_Model_Replay_000.bmp.jpg
And PD don't seem to have done much "touching up" of GT4 models, some of them are just incredibly bad:
http://i56.tinypic.com/hu0cjt.jpg
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This screen is of a similar car and same track:
I'm amazed at how wrong PD's rendition of the Laguna Seca is (I mean they do after all go to the lengths of replicating the grafitti on the Nurburgring) - anyone who has been to the track will know that it isn't green.
Lacuna Seca wasnt green in previous GT's. There must be a reason why they did it that way in GT5. It probably depends on the season.
http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/epic-shows-off-unreal-engine-3
Not a specific game per say but it shows off some of the new UE3 features. I haven't been following the engine that much but the colorgrading and night day transitions are new I think.
Not a specific game per say but it shows off some of the new UE3 features. I haven't been following the engine that much but the colorgrading and night day transitions are new I think.
(((interference)))
Veteran
I'm pretty sure the Laguna Seca looks like that most - if not all the year, can't remember racing the LS in any other racing games and had it look green.
This is real life:
Also just saw these offscreen F3 shots on GAF:
It's amazing how much more realistic F3 looks when you tweak the lighting and contrast (i'm going to play around with my set's settings to see if I cana replicate this). Just shows you how much Turn 10 stuffed up with their lighting choices with F3.
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I remember Forza 3 having the sawtooth edges for shadows in cockpit view, but the game doesn't uses a lot of self shadowing when in that particular view & even then the contrast when inside the car is so low that you'll miss most of the shadows anyways.
How ?
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Veteran
You go into multiscreen setup options:
http://www.forzacentral.com/forum/f...-view-deththrasher-how-do-video-included.html
Indeed the result is spectacular, off screen shot tend to looks better but this is something Turn10 should consider, a matter of taste but it looks way better than the usual "forza" look.I
Also just saw these offscreen F3 shots on GAF:
It's amazing how much more realistic F3 looks when you tweak the lighting and contrast (i'm going to play around with my set's settings to see if I cana replicate this). Just shows you how much Turn 10 stuffed up with their lighting choices with F3.
(((interference)))
Veteran
Yea, and it's definitely not just due to the off screen shot, because on my set (which is properly calibrated to D65 - and so recreates what Turn 10 intended the game to look like) the game looks like the usual cartoony style you see in the other screens.
Also, Lens of Truth did a 'comparison', they're quite inept at doing this - most of their comparison pics don't use the same car and they don't seem to be able to do basic things like matching the position on the track between consoles for each pic.
http://www.lensoftruth.com/?p=24784
However their framerate recorder indicates that GT5 drops 22% of frames compared to less than 0.14% for Forza. (GT5 is running at 720p)
They also are terrible drivers, the video isn't even in sync with the other console
EDIT: And what is this?
http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2010/11/24/review-gran-turismo-5/
That looks like a photoshop job, I haven't seen any other pics showing such artifacting. People certainly wouldn't be complaining about '16 pixel' wipers if this was true.
Can anyone confirm?
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