The Game Technology discussion thread *Read first post before posting*

Sometime more can be less, 1000 cars is not needed to make the best racing game, as well as kart, nascar, etc. I would not be surprised if GT6 is more focused to its business which is GT racing. Actually I expect a lot from GT6, lean interface, less cars but better, outstanding graphics at 720P, they may even consider 30fps if they manage to get the input lag as low as criterion in NFS, huge step in AI, impressive physic and damage model, flawless online.
Completely disagree with this approach. 60 fps is a must, Nascar, WRC and Karting is really awesome and really adds to the overall package and gameplay. GT 5 have big campaign. Physics are already top notch, probably the best on consoles and really close to top PC sims. AI is almost perfect [perfect in racing condition, not always perfect in anomaly situations], online have two days and Kazunori already told in Eurogamer interview that they overlooked the demand.

And about standard cars. I treat them as an free GT 4 in HD with updated physics, AI, sounds and shaders. They looks really good in gameplay thx to shaders, to that degree that its really hard to recognize what model You passed premium/standard

The biggest flaw are i think particles, they should try to implement that nvidia technique to render high resolution particles on edges of geometry and 2-3 tracks that are converted straight from GT 4, rest of the game is really high and very high quality.
 
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Apparently there are quite a few patches planned so it will be interesting to see what is bugs and what is running out of time.
 
And about standard cars. I threat them as an free GT 4 in HD with updated physics, AI, sounds and shaders. They looks really in gameplay thx to shaders, to that degree that its really hard to recognize what model You passed premium/standard

what I thought too, just GT4 HD remix like sly and gow included in GT5.
 
Do we think PD just didn't 'get' the PS3 architecture, and their mindset was too coloured by PS2? A lot of the compromises we're seeing just dont match PD's previous obsesesion with perfection, and I feel they hit technical hurdles and couldn't find a suitable engineering solution so had to make simple cutbacks. That is, if they had created a rain effect early on and hit the limitations of the hardware, would they have tried a completely different system? I still don't understand why no-one seems to be trying a 2D shader based fog or rain effect. Think like the old Z-based fogging only with some shader maths to produce what looks like partcile movement. It'd have limitations, but in something like a racing game where you're mostly travelling into the spray, the end result should be way better than current lowres transparent overdraw.
Do you think the sub-1080p resolution they tried to aim while maintaining 60fps and 12 cars on screen may have led them to hitting more bottlenecks than normal?

The inconsistencies are bizarre. In many areas its evident that PD aimed high and showed their skill while in others its as if they had to make compromises because there was no other choice and time left.

Some pixelated "bloom" or heat haze effect has been there since Proloque, and the staircase shadows behave strangely often.

I am sure that if it was up to Kaz any resolution higher than 720p would have been at the bottom of his priorities in getting the game look right. But I feel that Sony wanted to use GT5 as a product to demonstrate the initial PS3 1080p claims but hindered the visuals in more important areas during the process. I doubt PD would have wanted that
 
In the early days of PSN and Live!, I was suggesting developers use these platforms to test technology. My example was Snowblind Studios creating a simple dungeon crawler like the upcoming ones to test out an engine and get user feedback, as they work on the major title. Had PD created deliberately a couple of simpler test games, they could have got their hand in with the architecture, instead of setting out to create their magnum opus cold.

With online progressing, this seems an even better development model to me. think how much is sunk into developer AAA games that belly-up on launch. Instead create a core engine and build content around that, updating the engine as needed. GT6 could instea become Core GT Platform, a game engine, with content released piecemeal. As issues arise, the engine can be reworked and if needs be (assets need to be reworked), released as an alternative game. that is, the future I feel should aim for less and more often. The GT concept of the ultimate car experience is better suited to this than any other title. PD could release the game and roll out a whole online database of cars with links to the assets. And of course release discs like SingStar for offline PS3.

The whole structure of technology should take a shift towards being more modular, I feel.
 
The whole structure of technology should take a shift towards being more modular, I feel.

I totally agree with this. I do think though that GT5 is, at its core, something that at least appears to have gone much into that direction. Just the menu structure and windows alone are something pretty amazing at times, rivalling the best you hope to see on regular computers. A lot of stuff here is ready to be expanded endlessly, so it will be interesting to see where it goes.
 
May I ask some technique of GT5?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEBQ2Zsyjes
This is the Tokyo Game Show 09 ver of GT5, but the retail version has almost the same degree of effect.

0:15 ~ 0:21 the environmental reflection on the car is really amazing.

0:45 ~ 0:52 the shadow of trees are so complicated and realistic that I have never seen in any console racing games. It reminds me what I have seen in 1st party game - Uncharted 2, which also similar complex shadow effect.

What is the technique behind them? I really don't understand, thanks!
 
It´s a "whale half full/half empty" discussion. I would pick the Top Gear Test Track and Laguna Seca in their current form, over not having them. And when i race the tracks, the difference is pretty much gone.
The question is, why are these tracks different? This thread exists to explore the technical reasons. If there are no technical reasons, and the best GT5 has to offer goes toe-to-toe with other racing engines, then we can drop GT5 from this thread. ;)

At this point, I'll add that the screenshots presented tend to be to highlight the worst that's going on. Do we have any screenshots of GT5 looking its best in gameplay to see what's being used? (DF's comparison should be up tomorrow, seeing as Richard aims for a Saturday article).
 
The question is, why are these tracks different? This thread exists to explore the technical reasons. If there are no technical reasons, and the best GT5 has to offer goes toe-to-toe with other racing engines, then we can drop GT5 from this thread. ;)

At this point, I'll add that the screenshots presented tend to be to highlight the worst that's going on. Do we have any screenshots of GT5 looking its best in gameplay to see what's being used? (DF's comparison should be up tomorrow, seeing as Richard aims for a Saturday article).


That´s the big question. Why. And, if you just compare, with the same engine, in the same game, different circuits, I cannot find any reason for such terrific (in the bad sense) courses that lack of polish, artistic and related with testing. Madrid or other courses are really, really good -let´s say, much increased polycount, better textures, more objects on screen, etc, even animated-. It´s curious that this type of excellence is related with urban circuits and maybe it´s to some extent due to artistic care. And you can think of Laguna Seca et all "reduced" in polycount because of the inclusion of dynamic lighting, clima, etc, but that´s not the case.

The whole thing point to (incredibly) a rushed game. It´s difficult to believe after so much time, but that´s my best bet. And, as liolio suggested, that relates with bad project management.

I think that the game was targeted to late 2009 release, or march (in JPN) 2010, but problems probably arised and were not resolved in time. And it´s pretty clear that, if this is true, in Sony people shouldn´t be very happy.

So, in short words, the quality of some standard cars and circuits is barely acceptable. Not -obviously- with previous Yamauchi standards (grrr). And that is REALLY strange.

A technical question: you take the highest polycount of each model in GT4. How many time do you believe that´s necessary in order to, just touching up textures and decals, improving resolution and so on, make them polished? 1-2 days/manwork? If that´s the case, 20 men, in 40 days, are enough to improve 20 cars. 100 cars would need 200 days... and 20 artists...

The numbers are big.

Other idea: how "better" can the game become just optimizing code, and patching it? Not taking different approach and modifying the engine to a big level, just optimizing things in the way they´re now. Memory saving measures? Reduction in time for certain routines and, as a result, more GPU freed to just improve filtering?

It´s this really so undoable now?

And just another question (i´m courious), as a producer. What option is the better: just going for GT6 in 1,5 years from now (september 2012 for instance) forgetting the GT5 engine or just sticking with it and giving starved people big updates -some of them not for free?
 
This in not GT5 versus Forza. If you're not discussing the technical differences (not just the features like handling or visual realism) between engines, you shouldn't be posting here.

GT discussion was moved to the GT thread.
 
This'll complicate matters regards your choice:

PS3 Mass Effect 2 uses ME3 engine

"We actually created the engine for Mass Effect 3 and used that to make Mass Effect 2 PS3. So we took the content, the story and all of the other assets that made up Mass Effect 2 and we put it into the Mass Effect 3 engine.

It also includes DLC content, so it sounds like good value.
 
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