The Game Technology discussion thread *Read first post before posting*

The textures might be lower quality on 360 not because of the other effects but because DVD space limitation.

the game only weighs in at 3.3GB installed on the 360. I think the real reason is because of asset loading/streaming. The ps3 requires a mandatory install.

so you have the 360 version which only has: 8.2 - 16.5MBps to work with for asset streaming while the PS3 has 18 - 35MBps. Installing seems like cheating lol.

considering that the first thing people complain about is texture popup they just raped the textures to eliminate the popup as much as possible.
 
Thanks to the UC2 debate, i started to play around with it again, for the technology look....this time i noticed the game defaults at 720p and not 1080p, forcing it to 1080p by unticking PS3 720p display settings, i found the graphics to be blurry...worse than letting the TV upscale...so the point is, anyone knows what type of upscaling ND used...because UC1 do not look as blurry when PS3 upscaled to 1080p.
 
Funny, I thought the original Uncharted 1 and LP explosions both were amazing at the times.

That was before I learned from B3D to recognize the low res buffers. But I guess that's the point, they stood out to me as explosions better than others I'd seen. Obviously the tradeoff worked correctly.

Of course they'd look even better in hi res though. That is one thing I notice in Crysis which has all that brute force to play with, the high res explosions.

UDF explosions were regular shaded and animated 3d meshes, how did you recognize low res there?
 
sebbbi, graphically, your game is pretty amazing. I like the compromises you guys made. There are some nitpicks (the bloom and aliasing on the rider needs to be addressed imo; less issues being explosion fire and the pixelated check points). But that is being pretty picky--you guys made a lot of good choices and the end result is really cohesive and looks very nice.
Yes, our artists have complained about my quickly done bloom filter and tonemapping implementation a lot :). It was our first Xbox 360 game, and I had to code many algorithms twice to find the most optimal performing one. At first the engine was based on LiDR (light indexed deferred rendering), and then it was forward renderer and after that a more traditional deferred renderer... At start we had stencil shadows for some months (direct port from Trials 2 SE PC game), but due to all the stencil shadow problems, we quickly switched to ESM shadow maps. I didn't have time to try a VSM/ESM hybrid, and I didn't have time to finish my parallel memexport based SSAO filter. During the project I got a volume texture based SSAO field renderer ready, but it took too much performance, and 30 fps was not something we wanted. For the next engine version (the next game) I think we will have lots of new stuff coming up. Trials HD was a good first try on Xbox 360, but we still have to go forward to match the graphics quality of the latest best looking AAA titles. Aiming at 60 fps is our goal again, and I have designed our next technology around it. I try to offload as much prosessing from the frame as possible. Not all things have to be fully updated every frame. Prediction and real time surface baking (now we have really fast GPU DXT compressor as well) are keys to reduce the frame workload in our next technology.

One of the most interesting technologies I developed during the Trials HD production was definitely the projected surface cache texturing system. We had two screen resolution surface cache textures that we projected to the geometry. One texture was rendered every 4th frame at predicted world state (physics engine integrator solved moving object positions) four frames in the future. The second texture ("past surface cache") was simply the last predicted frame. Both of these textures had object ID stored in the alpha channel. The renderer rendered the whole visible geometry sampling only these two projected textures (lighting, shadowing etc were already in the texture), and selected the pixel from the texture that was visible in the current object/camera view (object ID comparison for the pixel). If both surfaces resulted a cache miss (incorrect object ID) the last frame color was used (*), if both were visible, they were blended together (free 2xSSAO inside the polygon surfaces that were visible in the both projected surface textures). This system tripled our frame rate, but it made the moving shadows update only every 4th frame and we had some graphics artifacts (see *). In the end we didn't use this technology in Trials HD.

(*): The correct way to handle a cache miss would be to render the pixel again. However this is very expensive, as the cache miss areas are just few pixels each and are shattered around the screen. Using last pixel causes some artifacts if foreground is moving fast and background is moving to another direction for example.
 
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Thanks to the UC2 debate, i started to play around with it again, for the technology look....this time i noticed the game defaults at 720p and not 1080p, forcing it to 1080p by unticking PS3 720p display settings, i found the graphics to be blurry...worse than letting the TV upscale...so the point is, anyone knows what type of upscaling ND used...because UC1 do not look as blurry when PS3 upscaled to 1080p.

Uncharted 1 change the res in 1080 mode to 960x1080 or something like that, I would hazard a guess this time they just upscaled the 720p image thus causing the blurring.
 
Their SSAO involves texture lookups/sampling/filtering so there could be some implications on RSX/G7x (stalling) as one of the ALUs per fragment shader pipe handles the texture address processing. For instance, Epic mentioned doing a fog computation in parallel on Xbox 360 as the ALUs and texture processors are completely orthogonal.
I could swear that someone said that Microsoft had the SSAO code freely avalible on their SDKs for about a year now maybe more. I think that could be part of the reason. Can anyone suggest that it been part of Sony's SDK for awhile now...long enough to make into a 3rd party product?
 
Because isn’t the 360 capable of using more texture memory than the PS3?

In theory yes, though you still have the same* upper bound as the PS3 which is especially relevant for multi-plat games: you can't very well spend time/money to reduce non-texture memory budget for one of your three plat targets just to increase texture budget.

Anyway, does anyone know how much space the PS3's version takes? If it's a source resolution drop it would show up as a size difference between both versions. On first blush the PC's double size of the XBOX's (thanks Brad) could account for that.

*
or thereabouts, depending on the OS memory utilization du jour.
 
Squeezed onto a single layer to avoid layer change costs?

That's on 360? On PC the game takes up 6.8 GBs. Only 764 MBs of that is movie files.

Yeah 3.3gb on 360. The single layer theory is interesting, I wonder if their streaming didn't work well enough with just a dual layer dvd. Kinda the last thing you'd expect since it's a cell shaded game and hence textures would compress more than a non cell shaded game, so you'd think it would stream better than other existing games out there. But then why else would they drop it from 6.8gb on PC to 3.3GB on 360?


Richard said:
Anyway, does anyone know how much space the PS3's version takes?

That would help but it might be hard to get an accurate number for that. Sometimes we pad the data on the blu-ray with lots of extra unnecessary stuff to make huge data files, just to piss off pirates in case they take a crack at it.
 
8) Now that is why we come to B3D. Thanks sebbbi!

iirc Was there not some object based motion blur developed for Trails that was different than the typical velocity map approach? What are your thoughts in regards to the direction you see motion blur and what you would like to do with Trials HD2?
 
Yeah 3.3gb on 360. The single layer theory is interesting, I wonder if their streaming didn't work well enough with just a dual layer dvd. Kinda the last thing you'd expect since it's a cell shaded game and hence textures would compress more than a non cell shaded game, so you'd think it would stream better than other existing games out there. But then why else would they drop it from 6.8gb on PC to 3.3GB on 360?


So does this mean development might have led on the ps3?
 
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