The Framerate Analysis Thread part 2

brain_stew said:
Isn't the hit for triple buffering at 720p only ~3.5MB or so when you're rendering with no msaa? Considering their engine already supports a well implemented form of triple buffering on the PS3 surely giving it up is just a flat out poor decision? Is that extra few MBs of RAM really going to make all that much difference to the texture quality?
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Maybe its for multiplayer only, perhaps they priorize control response over image consistency which kinda makes sense when playing with people across the world...

But i think they should give an option to enable or disable vsync... In Re5 people complained about control-delay, and i'm sure they are going to complain about tear... So give people to choose whatever they like to compromise.
 
LightHeaven said:
In Re5 people complained about control-delay, and i'm sure they are going to complain about tear... So give people to choose whatever they like to compromise.
Click to expand...

No one but the feature at DF complained about any control issues with RE5. Even that is largely a placebo effect due to seeing actual stats of frame rate drops.

Tearing to an extent is acceptable, but not with the current state. Give the demo a go when it's out in public. The uncapped frame rate really doesn't help with the controls.
 
SG79 said:
No one but the feature at DF complained about any control issues with RE5. Even that is largely a placebo effect due to seeing actual stats of frame rate drops.

Tearing to an extent is acceptable, but not with the current state. Give the demo a go when it's out in public. The uncapped frame rate really doesn't help with the controls.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say it's a placebo effect for everyone. Controller latency for triple buffering is very noticeable on PC for me and I never look at frame rate graphs. When you are making 180 degree turns in 20-100 ms (people watching me often get sick or describe watching me as similar to watching a slideshow), any additional latency is immediately noticeable when trying to hit moving opponents that you only see for a split second. I'm sure the good players with controller sensitivity set to max on consoles would also be able to notice minute changes in latency.

It's why I never ever ever run FPS games with vsync on. Vsync is reserved only for RTS, RPG (non first person view) and adventure games.

Regards,
SB
 
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SG79 said:
No one but the feature at DF complained about any control issues with RE5. Even that is largely a placebo effect due to seeing actual stats of frame rate drops.

Tearing to an extent is acceptable, but not with the current state. Give the demo a go when it's out in public. The uncapped frame rate really doesn't help with the controls.
Click to expand...
I remember seeing some impressions about sluggish controls on Ps3 demo, even before DF feature, specially by the ones who had already played on 360... But, people said it was due some slowdowns, not a consistent delay...

Edit: But still, having an option wouldn't hurt either :p I mean, even on Re5-360 if possible i would turn on vsync on cutscenes and leave it disabled during gameplay, but i can see why they give less choices in console games compared to their pc counterparts.
 
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LightHeaven said:
I remember seeing some impressions about sluggish controls on Ps3 demo, even before DF feature, specially by the ones who had already played on 360... But, people said it was due some slowdowns, not a consistent delay...

Edit: But still, having an option wouldn't hurt either :p I mean, even on Re5-360 if possible i would turn on vsync on cutscenes and leave it disabled during gameplay, but i can see why they give less choices in console games compared to their pc counterparts.
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Oh, the demo's frame rate was atrocious for sure but the final game pre-patch was much better. Post patch (August 09), it's been pretty good.

I agree with you, but I can't see it happening. For the record, the 360 RE5 had V-sync disengaged even during the cutscenes.
 
SG79 said:
No one but the feature at DF complained about any control issues with RE5. Even that is largely a placebo effect due to seeing actual stats of frame rate drops.
Click to expand...

Bear in mind that I've measured controller response on RE5 to vary between 100ms and 166ms within moments in the same level performing exactly the same move, it is far more than a "placebo" effect. Add on top display latency and you're looking at an end to end lag of up to 200ms.
 
grandmaster said:
Bear in mind that I've measured controller response on RE5 to vary between 100ms and 166ms within moments in the same level performing exactly the same move, it is far more than a "placebo" effect. Add on top display latency and you're looking at an end to end lag of up to 200ms.
Click to expand...

During gameplay, I certainly didn't notice much of a difference between the two console versions control-wise with a few exceptions. Mostly in the areas where the water and the reflections weren't dumbed down on the PS3 to be precise, particularly the dock areas (the rolling truck). I found that area to be unaffected by the patch.

LP2's MP demo was a sharp contrast however. I'm typically sensitive to lag in action games and fighters, and that was the first time where I found myself bothered a bit by some input lag in a shooter.
 
grandmaster said:
Bear in mind that I've measured controller response on RE5 to vary between 100ms and 166ms within moments in the same level performing exactly the same move, it is far more than a "placebo" effect. Add on top display latency and you're looking at an end to end lag of up to 200ms.
Click to expand...

Display latency could cause the total to add up to much more than that. I've been doing tons of research on this recently, and some of the worst brands like Sony's and Samsung's could add 60-70 ms in game mode, and for Joe Six Pack who probably doesnt bother turning game mode on, even much more. Also, display latency seems to be getting worse, basically it's a tradeoff, the better picture quality=the more processing=the more lag. These newest sets with LED, 240 hz, and tons of processing, deliver great pictures, but have horrific lag.
 
Rangers said:
Display latency could cause the total to add up to much more than that. I've been doing tons of research on this recently, and some of the worst brands like Sony's and Samsung's could add 60-70 ms in game mode, and for Joe Six Pack who probably doesnt bother turning game mode on, even much more. Also, display latency seems to be getting worse, basically it's a tradeoff, the better picture quality=the more processing=the more lag. These newest sets with LED, 240 hz, and tons of processing, deliver great pictures, but have horrific lag.
Click to expand...

Good point. The problem is that a lot of game modes still have a good amount of PP on to artificially make the picture look good, so you'll have to dig in and turn them off, IF it's possible. That's certainly something you'd want to look out for, particularly that there are motion artifacts produced.

And yes, it's getting worse. I think we have a topic dedicated to the issue somewhere, but trust me, the issue is not brand specific but model specific. Suffice it to say, higher end isn't always better, especially if you're not going to use the features that make them expensive.
 
I have a Sony tv too, and switching off all the post processing crap basically makes ALL lag go away (put a CRT tv next to the TV connected via HDMI and there was little lag visible seen from the camera).
 
Has a recent update to GTAIV for Xbox 360 done something to the framerate?

I couldn't spot any screen tearing, and it seems like the framerate is very consistent now, but with a persistent fame skip.
 
warb said:
It feels less that 30fps, but very consistent. I'm sure there was more variation the last time I played it.
Click to expand...
I had an opposite experience, it never felt like below 30FPS cause it could jump to mid 30s to high 30s [or even low 40s] in less taxing areas & all the cutscenes. And it mostly remained at high 20s even in the most taxing areas. The PS3 ver however felt consistent, never too high never too low, but it also ran at a low average framerate. :/
 
It feels like less than 30fps now because of the persistent frame skip, I don't think it was always like this.
 
Video is private....


Also how can a game tear when it's a perfect 60 FPS all the time????
 
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