Do you have flashgot?
Just hit "flashgot file" (or "save target as" if you dont have flashgot) and download it, then run it
The Big Forza 2 Thread *
- Thread starter Cheezdoodles
- Start date
Do you have flashgot?
Just hit "flashgot file" (or "save target as" if you dont have flashgot) and download it, then run it
quest55720
Regular
Wow is forza 2 coming together at the last minute. Much much better looking that it was even a few weeks ago. I do admit I had some doubts but now I just can't wait to get my hands on the demo.
Its reflecting the environment properly, not using cubemaps. Take a look at the gameplay videos.
As far as cars reflecting cars, here is the first gameplay pic released more than half a year ago:
those reflections certainly arent correct, its easy to have cars reflect other cars sortof, also based on that screenshot theres only a single cubemap for the whole scene + not one per car (which is a bit strange, true it would cost quite a bit of performance, but racers normally arent the most gpu/cpu intensive games).
heres my own example, not cars but fruit ( hard to see but, notice the translucent sphere at the top is reflecting the static scenery whilst also the moving apples, its enuf to fool the eyes of a causal observer cause it sorta looks right but like the forza reflections it aint)
actually looking at that screenshot it just shows how much u can get away with ( ive mentioned it on these forums about sticking ronald macdonald on a reflection cubemap + ppl would be hard pressed to notice it)
note the reflection point for the cubemap looks to be in the front of the grey car somewhere, the back bumper of the grey car reflects the side + front wheel of the yellow car, something which its impossible to achieve from that angle ( even worse u will also notice the yellow car does not reflect the grey car at all!!), i mean these are huge errors, yet ppl say 'real reflections'. to make it worse it looks like theyre not even normalizing the vector in the fragment shader (even in the latest screenshots, sure its a slight performance hit but comeon it looks so much better)
to deepblue below - true they are realtime (just like in my spaceshot, but theyre still not correct)
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those reflections certainly arent correct, its easy to have cars reflect other cars sortof, also based on that screenshot theres only a single cubemap for the whole scene + not one per car (which is a bit strange, true it would cost quite a bit of performance, but racers normally arent the most gpu/cpu intensive games).
heres my own example, not cars but fruit ( hard to see but, notice the translucent sphere at the top is reflecting the static scenery whilst also the moving apples, its enuf to fool the eyes of a causal observer cause it sorta looks right but like the forza reflections it aint)
The latest builds do not reflect cars on cars (little gain for great performance drain), but the reflections are all realtime.
Cubemaps are ideal for faking reflections from static objects (windows on a house reflects soroundings). I would find it hard to believe that they would be using cubemaps that change depending on where the car is on the track on a next-gen console. A game like PGR2 for xbox had true real-time reflections on up to 4 cars at the same time, there's no discussion about this.
That was one thing that really impressed me with PGR2, and I verified it by parking the car next to a tree that was moving. The reflections reflected the moving trees.
Edit: I just watched one of the latest Forza2 videos and indeed they are true reflections and not cubemaps. Such things as poles, paris wheel, and other objects specific for the location are reflected. The reflections have jagged edges which are common to save rendering power (one views the car from a distance and not 10cm from the chassis).
A cubemap would have smooth edges (the reflections are pre-calculated) on the fake reflections and they would not reflect the suroundings correct (and everything else with great precision).
Forza2 video.
http://www.gametrailers.com/downloadnew.php?id=18980&type=wmv&f=
GT:HD screenshot (aliasing on the reflections).
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/713/713809/img_3976561.html
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Bigus Dickus
Regular
Bigus Dickus
Regular
You've got the same link for both...
Lol, been up all night doing paper work!
Forza2 video.
http://www.gametrailers.com/downloadnew.php?id=18980&type=wmv&f=
no theyre not they only do true reflections from a specific point, windows in a house are better served with a planer reflection (most games use this method when they do water reflections)
no discussion about this
but its about as true as me being able to propel myself into space on a can of heinz extra gassy beanshmmm moving trees
youre not having a flashback are ucubemaps will give this impression as well
i suggest u look up what cubemaps actually are (as its clear u have gained the wrong idea from misinformation or something ( no offense intended) ).
btw the lowquality in the GTHD reflection is caused by usually when u make a cubemap u will render into a lower sized texture eg 6x128x128 instead of say 6x1024x1024 (which cause its runtime u cant really use compressed textures) coupled this with the normals diverging means the distance of the two samples is often gonna be great hence the blockyness.
further evidence that forza2 is using cubemaps, they typically only work well with objects a long way away, eg the stands clouds trees etc. with objects close to the cubemaps generation point (eg cars) youll see errors
no discussion about this
Well it can be discussed how precise thoose reflections are.
hmmm moving trees
Well not swaying trees but swaying "leaf blocks" on the trees (like in Oblivion)!
I'll have to look that up, was quite some time ago I read about cubemaps (when Geforce256 was released). :smile:
Fu3lFr3nzy
Regular
1st pic: my god......
*nerdgasm*2nd pic: great, but the overbright reflection is still there
Though after seeing other new pics the last couple of days, I have no doubt the final product will be visually gorgeous
lol an update pic. Looks good, though I dont like the positioning of the car to the environment(looks too cramped) and a bit too much blur perhaps? :|
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On the other hand, for photomode shots they don't look that great.
Anyway, I look forward to seeing (and feeling) this game in action ... Hope it's any good! (I'm still not convinced, to be honest, but then, being a Sony fanboy, that's to be expected.
)On the other hand, for photomode shots they don't look that great.
Anyway, I look forward to seeing (and feeling) this game in action ... Hope it's any good! (I'm still not convinced, to be honest, but then, being a Sony fanboy, that's to be expected.
actually the first shot is BEFORE photomode and the 2nd one is AFTER.
that's a comparison. There is no Photomode "AA" applied either in the build from which these screens are taken (but will be in final game ) Preview/press build, final will be refined a bit more with effects.
Allegedly, according to Che.
The good: This shot is absolytely beautiful. Further, the new Detroit vs. Japan video looks great when you are on the hood cam of the muscle car (the cars in the distance look very similar to the below shot). The game has progressed a ton.
Now the bad: Turn10 is a freaking walking nightmare in regards to PR (and I ain't talking about Che). I have never heard so much boasting about a game that totally under delivered on its promises. This doesn't make Forza 2 a bad game (it looks like it will be really good) but it is a total let down... and everytime they open their mouth they look more and more silly and you absolutely cannot trust their media.
First off, I think I speak for everyone when I say that I am sick and tired of the "it is an old build" line.
Second, where is all the 720p direct feed gameplay videos?
Finally, I am having a hard time trusting Tun10's recent media -- bullshots anyone. I would love to be proven wrong (and a couple gameplay feeds, not replays, could do just that).Yet between missing their PR targets on features/content as well as being less than candid on replay & photomode (it went from "same as the game" to "well, we add motion blur, DOF, and other stuff and drop to 30fps") I have a hard time blindly trusting their screenshots. Most devs are bullshotting us these days and Turn10 hasn't exactly proven to be squeaky clean either. So call me skeptical.
While things may change with the final build, it looks like even more features have been axed. The long trumpted 4xMSAA is now variable; the 3D animate grass now looks sparse and like static sprites; the per-frame updates reflections are looking to be less than 60fps in some videos as well as possibly cars no longer reflecting. This on top of axing 33% of the number of cars on track, motion blur and DOF, and a number of other features (as well as a ton of content). I find it a shocking that a game delayed by 6 months continues to hack and slash away at content and features. And while the cars are really coming into their own parts of the world the cars drive in look... average at best. Sure, some parts looke nice, but they really look disconnected. Some parts look almost PS2 like. The overbright reflections, overuse of bloom, shader aliasing, render target and reflection aliasing...
Oh well, in 2 weeks we will see for ourselves. Were all those "these are old builds" statements worth the electronic ink they were written with or were they excuses? Some of the progress made in the last 2 months has been very impressive so you hope it is true. But other aspects, especially the appearant cutting of features to make said improvements, makes me skeptical. And then there are those PGR4 screenshots running around.
FM2 is looking like a nice car sim -- and with FF/60fps (missing in the Xbox version) on top of online play, strong AI, robust customization, and damage modelling this should be a really deep game that offers a rewarding experience. So I don't want to be too critical... maybe next time maybe they will borrow BC's rendering engine But in regards to criticism they really did dig their own grave. How long were we force fed "4xMSAA/720p/60fps/HDR" as major graphical selling points and they seemingly cannot even hit those targets? I can understand compromises and how cutting features can create a better end product -- in such cases PR should really just shut up and let the game itself do the talking.
Ps- Turn10 needs to take Ace's guide to demoing. Notably take some notes from my advice to SK: When demoing your product have your best game players play the game. One only need contrast how NT demoed HS at E3 2006 to how SK let newbs play their game to see why this is important. The Detroit vs. Japan video shows some really, really sloppy racing. For a racing sim I want to see the game excell as a sim--not some newb driver taking poor racing lines and going off track a half dozen times. You can thank me with a free copy of your game.
Now the bad: Turn10 is a freaking walking nightmare in regards to PR (and I ain't talking about Che). I have never heard so much boasting about a game that totally under delivered on its promises. This doesn't make Forza 2 a bad game (it looks like it will be really good) but it is a total let down... and everytime they open their mouth they look more and more silly and you absolutely cannot trust their media.
First off, I think I speak for everyone when I say that I am sick and tired of the "it is an old build" line.
Second, where is all the 720p direct feed gameplay videos?
Finally, I am having a hard time trusting Tun10's recent media -- bullshots anyone. I would love to be proven wrong (and a couple gameplay feeds, not replays, could do just that).Yet between missing their PR targets on features/content as well as being less than candid on replay & photomode (it went from "same as the game" to "well, we add motion blur, DOF, and other stuff and drop to 30fps") I have a hard time blindly trusting their screenshots. Most devs are bullshotting us these days and Turn10 hasn't exactly proven to be squeaky clean either. So call me skeptical.
While things may change with the final build, it looks like even more features have been axed. The long trumpted 4xMSAA is now variable; the 3D animate grass now looks sparse and like static sprites; the per-frame updates reflections are looking to be less than 60fps in some videos as well as possibly cars no longer reflecting. This on top of axing 33% of the number of cars on track, motion blur and DOF, and a number of other features (as well as a ton of content). I find it a shocking that a game delayed by 6 months continues to hack and slash away at content and features. And while the cars are really coming into their own parts of the world the cars drive in look... average at best. Sure, some parts looke nice, but they really look disconnected. Some parts look almost PS2 like. The overbright reflections, overuse of bloom, shader aliasing, render target and reflection aliasing...
Oh well, in 2 weeks we will see for ourselves. Were all those "these are old builds" statements worth the electronic ink they were written with or were they excuses? Some of the progress made in the last 2 months has been very impressive so you hope it is true. But other aspects, especially the appearant cutting of features to make said improvements, makes me skeptical. And then there are those PGR4 screenshots running around.
FM2 is looking like a nice car sim -- and with FF/60fps (missing in the Xbox version) on top of online play, strong AI, robust customization, and damage modelling this should be a really deep game that offers a rewarding experience. So I don't want to be too critical... maybe next time maybe they will borrow BC's rendering engine
But in regards to criticism they really did dig their own grave. How long were we force fed "4xMSAA/720p/60fps/HDR" as major graphical selling points and they seemingly cannot even hit those targets? I can understand compromises and how cutting features can create a better end product -- in such cases PR should really just shut up and let the game itself do the talking.Ps- Turn10 needs to take Ace's guide to demoing. Notably take some notes from my advice to SK: When demoing your product have your best game players play the game. One only need contrast how NT demoed HS at E3 2006 to how SK let newbs play their game to see why this is important. The Detroit vs. Japan video shows some really, really sloppy racing. For a racing sim I want to see the game excell as a sim--not some newb driver taking poor racing lines and going off track a half dozen times. You can thank me with a free copy of your game.
It would seem they have been removed for bandwidth...
I had them cached so I've put them up on my dumping ground:
http://hungryspoon.com/random/m0dusexclusive_before.jpg
http://hungryspoon.com/random/courtingdisasterwe9.jpg
Fu3lFr3nzy
Regular
Thanks for reuploading . Did you manage to snag the yellow NSX aswell?
. Did you manage to snag the yellow NSX aswell? "Nerve-Damage"
Regular
The good: This shot is absolytely beautiful. Further, the new Detroit vs. Japan video looks great when you are on the hood cam of the muscle car (the cars in the distance look very similar to the below shot). The game has progressed a ton.
Now the bad: Turn10 is a freaking walking nightmare in regards to PR (and I ain't talking about Che). I have never heard so much boasting about a game that totally under delivered on its promises. This doesn't make Forza 2 a bad game (it looks like it will be really good) but it is a total let down... and everytime they open their mouth they look more and more silly and you absolutely cannot trust their media.
First off, I think I speak for everyone when I say that I am sick and tired of the "it is an old build" line.
Second, where is all the 720p direct feed gameplay videos?
Finally, I am having a hard time trusting Tun10's recent media -- bullshots anyone. I would love to be proven wrong (and a couple gameplay feeds, not replays, could do just that).Yet between missing their PR targets on features/content as well as being less than candid on replay & photomode (it went from "same as the game" to "well, we add motion blur, DOF, and other stuff and drop to 30fps") I have a hard time blindly trusting their screenshots. Most devs are bullshotting us these days and Turn10 hasn't exactly proven to be squeaky clean either. So call me skeptical.
While things may change with the final build, it looks like even more features have been axed. The long trumpted 4xMSAA is now variable; the 3D animate grass now looks sparse and like static sprites; the per-frame updates reflections are looking to be less than 60fps in some videos as well as possibly cars no longer reflecting. This on top of axing 33% of the number of cars on track, motion blur and DOF, and a number of other features (as well as a ton of content). I find it a shocking that a game delayed by 6 months continues to hack and slash away at content and features. And while the cars are really coming into their own parts of the world the cars drive in look... average at best. Sure, some parts looke nice, but they really look disconnected. Some parts look almost PS2 like. The overbright reflections, overuse of bloom, shader aliasing, render target and reflection aliasing...
Oh well, in 2 weeks we will see for ourselves. Were all those "these are old builds" statements worth the electronic ink they were written with or were they excuses? Some of the progress made in the last 2 months has been very impressive so you hope it is true. But other aspects, especially the appearant cutting of features to make said improvements, makes me skeptical. And then there are those PGR4 screenshots running around.
FM2 is looking like a nice car sim -- and with FF/60fps (missing in the Xbox version) on top of online play, strong AI, robust customization, and damage modelling this should be a really deep game that offers a rewarding experience. So I don't want to be too critical... maybe next time maybe they will borrow BC's rendering engine
Ps- Turn10 needs to take Ace's guide to demoing. Notably take some notes from my advice to SK: When demoing your product have your best game players play the game. One only need contrast how NT demoed HS at E3 2006 to how SK let newbs play their game to see why this is important. The Detroit vs. Japan video shows some really, really sloppy racing. For a racing sim I want to see the game excell as a sim--not some newb driver taking poor racing lines and going off track a half dozen times. You can thank me with a free copy of your game.
Agree 100% (+rep)
