The Big Forza 2 Thread *

[Fu3lFr3nzy]

Now the bad: Turn10 is a freaking walking nightmare in regards to PR (and I ain't talking about Che). I have never heard so much boasting about a game that totally under delivered on its promises.

Not that im disagreeing with your statement Josh(great post btw), but I havent seen/heard of any recent PR talk about FM2 or am I just missing out on all the fun stuff you guys have read

Or did you mean something else in that paragraph I quoted?

 

[Acert93]

Not that im disagreeing with your statement Josh(great post btw), but I havent seen/heard of any recent PR talk about FM2 or am I just missing out on all the fun stuff you guys have read

Or did you mean something else in that paragraph I quoted?

I can go dig up the stuff if you wanted (just read the E3 pitpasses as well as the IGN and such interviews from the time) but needless to say their approach can be summerized as this: Promise the world using every techie buzz term around, promise a ton of content... and then fail to deliver on about 50% of those techie buzz words and cut 33% of your content -- and the while delaying 6 months and offering a darth of direct game material. I understand WHY they went the route they did (the game was early, looked like crap) but they miscalculated what they could bring to the table in features and content. They would have been better off talking about game features they knew they would provide (cars, maps, gameplay experience, etc) instead of tossing everything, including the kitchen sink, into interviews. And they way they informed gamers of these changes -- typically on GAF with snipping little comments like "8 cars now" or "you don't need motion blur" -- is pretty sly. The fact they have been screaming "4xMSAA!!" from day 1 as an essential element to their game, and now the game doesn't even appear to have 4xMSAA all the time says volumes. Not that I care about 4xMSAA. It is a nice feature but in no way necessary depending on the tradeoff. But I am shocked a developers would ride features so hard and then not deliver them. I would have much rather heard them spend their time talking about the tracks, physics, AI, career mode, online, etc and just leave the graphics and such at, "the finished product will look great. It isn't our focus but we will push the machine as hard as we can".

Just very poor PR.

Which is too bad because the game looks to be shaping up well and appears to be very deep. Their own PR has detracted from what they are delivering which is unfortunate for all the people working hard on the project. They could learn something from Bungie. Halo 3 is looking to follow a similar dev path (gameplay first, graphic polish applied last [but not developed last]) and while they have mentioned some technical stuff a couple times the focus has never been such and they have not banked on any graphical features, being better than someone else, etc. Wait and see/show approach.

 

[scooby_dooby]

and then fail to deliver on about 50% of those techie buzz words and cut 33% of your content -- and the while delaying 6 months and offering a darth of direct game material. I understand WHY they went the route they did (the game was early, looked like crap) but they miscalculated what they could bring to the table in features and content.

You're really being overly harsh here, the game is still 60fps, HDR, 720p, and looks gorgeous. As for 4xAA, we have a translation from an obscure interview at GDC that suggest variable AA, but we don't know.

The backgrounds are certainly nowhere near 'average', they are miles better than GT: HD, the trees, landscape and sky are all pretty amazing, especially when watching this on a bigscreen streamed to the 360.

The question of whether the old build was an excuse can be answered easily enough, compare screens from Teamxbox which are 4-5weeks old, to teh most recent shots. You can see it was anything but an excuse.

No 720p gameplay video's is annoying, and I wish they would release some. However, this latest video is 60fps, suggesting it's not replay mode, it must be the spectator mode which I think is essentially gameplay graphics. And yes, it looks freaking awesome from the Hood view.

In the end they delivered, the only major cut was dropping cars from 12 to 8, and removing 4 tracks. Volumetric grass...big deal, probably a mistake to claim this in the PR if they couldn't deliver, but I don't think anyone's going to honestly argue this is an important feature whatsoever in a racing game.

They still managed to get over 310 cars modeled, 720p, HDR, and a game that looks stunning. We'll have to wait to see the AA levels in the end, if they don't deliver you could lambast them, though I would still say you're blowing it out of proportion considering how good the game looks at tis point.

Also, I think if you're going to critique the PR, you have to look at the whole picture, beyond the internet. Forza ran a TV show on SPEED network which was very cool, they have toured events with their 3 screen setup, they have setup pods at Sebring, they have had Play events in Japan, alot more than most companies do and will probably heavily outweigh the fact they released some ugly screens on the internet.

pre-orders for the game on pace to double the original “Forza Motorsport

http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2007/04/04/543632.aspx

The must be doing something right!

 

[Neb]

The backgrounds are certainly nowhere near 'average', they are miles better than GT: HD, the trees, landscape and sky are all pretty amazing, especially when watching this on a bigscreen streamed to the 360.

QFT, billboard trees belongs to the past-gen!

 

[22psi]

More:

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5974/slr2ps6.jpg

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/2017/37740240cx3.jpg

 

[infinity4]

fantastic pics.

 

[Nesh]

I saw the video and the quality I get from some pics seem kind of inconsistent with the video.

Or perhaps it it me?

 

[Fu3lFr3nzy]

~

Thanks for that very indepth explanation

Umm, not to be a prick or anything, but for me, im not too fond of any car in FM2 that has a silver color. It never comes out right and ends up looking cartoony compared to other colors

 

[Cheezdoodles]

................

You just described just about any game that is hyped up graphically.

 

[Fu3lFr3nzy]

I was reading this on ign just now

In the early goings, Forza is looking like a winner. Though the graphics aren't as impressive as some screens would lead people to believe (oh those blasted jaggies!), the framerate is perfect.

I wonder what he meant by that. Are they noticeable during gameplay or did he spot them easily during photo mode(which we all know, makes aliasing quite noticeable)

 

[Tap In]

I was reading this on ign just now


I wonder what he meant by that. Are they noticeable during gameplay or did he spot them easily during photo mode(which we all know, makes aliasing quite noticeable)

yea Press release build is not final (sorry Joshua ) so who knows?

but i liked this...

But of course, you are going to want to test out other cars. And that's where Forza 2 (at least in my first day of ownership) has really impressed. Going from the light Colbalt SS to a '68 all-metal Mustang GT is a real eye-opener. You can feel the difference of the weight on the road. All it takes is one moderately-sharp turn and suddenly the tail is sliding, creating a very different sense of control (or lack of) in a power slide. Nothing more easily illustrates the attention to detail and the quality of the physics engine than hopping into a different car. Lines in races that I'd had down pat in the Cobalt suddenly have to be rethought as an e-brake turn can be a thing of beauty in one car and a hard collision into a wall in another.

 

["Nerve-Damage"]

I was reading this on ign just now


I wonder what he meant by that. Are they noticeable during gameplay or did he spot them easily during photo mode(which we all know, makes aliasing quite noticeable)

Survey said (gameplay)! I can guarantee you photo-mode has 4xAA applied.

 

[Deepblue]

Survey said (gameplay)! I can guarantee you photo-mode has 4xAA applied.

I'm pretty sure the majority of aliasing we are seeing is shader based.

 

[kyleb]

but i liked this...

Going from the light Colbalt SS to a '68 all-metal Mustang GT is a real eye-opener. You can feel the difference of the weight on the road. All it takes is one moderately-sharp turn and suddenly the tail is sliding, creating a very different sense of control (or lack of) in a power slide.

That is funny becuase my first car was a '68 Mustang so I know they are fairly light cars, I doubt they weight much if anything more than a Colbalt SS. Sounds more like he is noticing the difference between front and rear wheel drive.

 

[Tap In]

That is funny becuase my first car was a '68 Mustang so I know they are fairly light cars, I doubt they weight much if anything more than a Colbalt SS. Sounds more like he is noticing the difference between front and rear wheel drive.

either that or the difference between light and very light are very noticeable in the physics engine.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I wasn't aware of any methods for realtime reflections other than spherical or cubemaps... The only other way would be raytracing which is obviously out of the question.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

That is funny becuase my first car was a '68 Mustang so I know they are fairly light cars, I doubt they weight much if anything more than a Colbalt SS. Sounds more like he is noticing the difference between front and rear wheel drive.

Sounds to me like the author doesn't know the difference in handling between RWD and FWD.

 

[kyleb]

either that or the difference between light and very light are very noticeable in the physics engine.

Nah, I mean the Colbalt is 2991 lbs, where the '68 Mustangs weigh between 2,635-3,300 lbs, with the heavy end being the convertables.

I can't rightly call any of that very light though when my Austin-Healey Sprite out in my garage that weighs under 1500lbs, that is very light.

 

[Tap In]

Nah, I mean the Colbalt is 2991 lbs, where the '68 Mustangs weigh between 2,635-3,300 lbs, with the heavy end being the convertables.

I can't rightly call any of that very light though when my Austin-Healey Sprite out in my garage that weighs under 1500lbs, that is very light.

ahhh :smile:

 

[Cheezdoodles]

I sent IGN a mail regarding their preview of Forza 2, pointing out that the difference in handling was because one car is RWD and another is FWD, the weight being more or less the same, and how the difference in RWD and FWD car handling is one of the most basic and easiest differences to notice comparing any cars.

I also questioned if somebody with so little experience with cars, would be the correct person to write up a preview of a simulation racing games.

I wonder if they are going to reply