Surface PRO pricing revealed !

[Silent_Buddha]

First review of the Surface Pro that I've seen...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review/5

I found this amusing.

Since the introduction of the 3rd generation iPad with Retina Display several folks have pointed out to me that UI frame rate isn’t always so smooth on the device. I personally never noticed because I found that most of the competition was even worse, so it always seemed relatively smooth to me. After playing with Surface Pro however and going back to even the 4th gen iPad all of the sudden frame rate stutters are much more noticeable. Playing around with Bing maps on Surface Pro vs. RT is like night and day. Even if you compare scrolling and zoom performance to native iOS maps on the iPad 4, Surface Pro wins out.

Not surprisingly with regards to performance it spanks every other tablet that isn't based on Intel's Core series CPU. Also not surprisingly battery life is definitely very Ultrabook/Mac Air like. And weight is higher than Arm/Atom based tablets but lower than ultrabooks.

It would have been interesting to see what a 7w SDP IVB would have done for this (thinner and lighter). As Acer is claiming a 20% weight reduction with no reduction in battery life by switching to 7w SDP IVB from 13w TDP IVB.

Regards,
SB

 

[wco81]

Another review:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...h-windows-8-pro-hotter-thicker-faster-louder/

At the price point, people are going to cross-shop with Ultrabooks as much as other tablets.

 

[Squilliam]

By the time you get decent memory quantities on the iPad the difference in price to X86 tablets isn't so terrible. A 128 GB iPad 4 vs a 128GB Surface Pro is only $200 USD difference!

 

[eastmen]

The surface pro isn't all positive. The device could be lighter and another hour or so of battery life would be ideal. I'm still going to buy it mostly because its better all around than my laptop and in a year my gf will take it over and I can get one with broadwell

 

[silent_guy]

The surface pro isn't all positive. The device could be lighter and another hour or so of battery life would be ideal. I'm still going to buy it mostly because its better all around than my laptop and in a year my gf will take it over and I can get one with broadwell

That's the part I don't get: how is it better than a laptop if you can't even use it on your lap like other laptops? It seems like a master of none product to me?

I can see some of the appeal if you absolutely really only want one device that does everything but not having the perfect tool for a specific job would just annoy me.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I still personally think MS missed out on a huge opportunity by not including a keyboard dock that basically allows it to transform into a notebook when needed. The type covers are nice for lighter tablets, but for a full power x86 tablet, I really think a keyboard dock is required.

Regards,
SB

 

[Mize]

Am I the only one who just doesn't get the whole touchscreen laptop thing? I hate finger prints on my screen.

 

[Mintmaster]

That's the part I don't get: how is it better than a laptop if you can't even use it on your lap like other laptops? It seems like a master of none product to me?

You would think that if a 2-year-old can figure out how to do it then so can most people.

It'll work with your knees up, too, and make your neck less craned than a regular tablet would due to the keyboard pushing the screen closer to the knees. You have to be really picky to say that it won't work in the lap.
EDIT: Okay, I didn't consider case of chair-like sitting position with the screen suspended beyond the knees, which I think is is what Ars is harping about, but is it really necessary to have a 10.6" screen that far away?

but not having the perfect tool for a specific job would just annoy me.

That describes every ARM tablet to me. They're barely faster than a good smartphone and rarely pocketable, so if I want to carry/hold something that big then why not have a real OS and a physical keyboard?

Even when doing tablet tasks like browsing, I can type this post and then flip the keyboard out of the way right after, so I have a better tool for the job than any ARM tablet or other x86 hybrid (The Yoga concept sort of does the same thing, but it's a lot heavier).

 

[Grall]

Not surprisingly with regards to performance it spanks every other tablet that isn't based on Intel's Core series CPU.

With regards to graphics performance, isn't surface's LCD screen (much) lower rez than the retina iPad's?

The surface pro is a really interesting product methinks, much more useful than regular ARM tablets because of the powerful CPU and x86 compatibility. Also, win8 actually has a reason for existing on such a device, unlike on a regular desktop. I still think it's too early - or well, too late really - to launch a x86 tablet now; IVB is a decent enough CPU, but at 13W it's too power hungry for such a small device. MS really should have waited for haswell, or launched the pro much, much sooner. In a few months, haswell will be out, and MS will do what, a quick update, obsoleting a device that launched only a quarter or two earlier, or wait an entire year more or less before updating to haswell, just when broadwell will be right around the corner...?

That's a serious product launch fuckup if ever I saw one.

 

[silent_guy]

You would think that if a 2-year-old can figure out how to do it then so can most people.

I didn't read the Ars review, but the Mossberg, Verge etc. reviews are no different. I did have my hands on a Surface RT and I felt the same thing: if you want a physical keyboard on my lap, I want it to be stable too. The kickstand doesn't make this impossible, it just feels flimsy. (I'm not going to watch a 17min video, sorry. I'm sure those 2 year also are doing a fine job.)
Bedside usage is either for surfing, which is terrible on a 16x9, or programming, which works great on a regular laptop, but seems questionable on this thing.

You have to be really picky to say that it won't work in the lap.
EDIT: Okay, I didn't consider case of chair-like sitting position with the screen suspended beyond the knees, which I think is is what Ars is harping about, but is it really necessary to have a 10.6" screen that far away?

Yeah, that's another compromise: not only the unstable kickstand, but a screen that's too small for regular laptop usage. My MacBook Air 11" have been gathering dust for this reason also.

That describes every ARM tablet to me. They're barely faster than a good smartphone and rarely pocketable, so if I want to carry/hold something that big then why not have a real OS and a physical keyboard?

My tablet only leaves my home when flying. At that point I don't mind carrying both a 15inch laptop and a tablet and a couple of phones etc.

Even when doing tablet tasks like browsing, I can type this post and then flip the keyboard out of the way right after, so I have a better tool for the job than any ARM tablet or other x86 hybrid (The Yoga concept sort of does the same thing, but it's a lot heavier).

I'm very fast at screen keyboard typing (95% of my post here are done this way), so it doesn't really bother me.

I can see the appeal of a one in all device to some, but the trade-offs are too many for me.

 

[Mintmaster]

IVB is a decent enough CPU, but at 13W it's too power hungry for such a small device.

Anand's tests show it outlasting some ultrabooks, so it's got usable battery life. For some reason video playback really drains it, though.

MS really should have waited for haswell, or launched the pro much, much sooner. In a few months, haswell will be out

I don't think the lowest power versions of Haswell will be available until the fall. Even with IVB the ULV came out a couple months after the general release date, and the lowest power versions (7W/13W) didn't come out until last month.

 

[Laurent06]

I don't think the lowest power versions of Haswell will be available until the fall. Even with IVB the ULV came out a couple months after the general release date, and the lowest power versions (7W/13W) didn't come out until last month.

It's likely the ULV versions came later due to Intel tweaking its 22nm process. One can hope that now that the new process is better understood Haswell ULV variants will come very quickly.

 

[Grall]

Anand's tests show it outlasting some ultrabooks, so it's got usable battery life.

It's still not as good as an ARM tablet (IE: iPad), and it weighs a friggin kilo. Almost. That's quite the brick.

Even with IVB the ULV came out a couple months after the general release date, and the lowest power versions (7W/13W) didn't come out until last month.

Like previous poster mentioned, I don't think Intel wants to wait six more months for the ULV variants, what would be the gain in that? It may take longer for ULV haswells to come out than desktop and regular laptop variants, but not AS long as with IVB. ...Or so I hope anyway.

Been wrong before, so...who knows. If I had a crystal ball of unerring future vision... Man, I'd be the richest guy on the planet.

 

[Blazkowicz]

I thought it was known that the next Surface Pro tablet uses Jaguar. Counting on the SoC-like, two core versions to be low powerish enough, plus it will be using Xbox 720 tech and HSA.

Here's one such leak : http://www.dailytech.com/Report+Spe...crosoft+Surface+Tablets+Leak/article29313.htm

 

[eastmen]

That's the part I don't get: how is it better than a laptop if you can't even use it on your lap like other laptops? It seems like a master of none product to me?

I can see some of the appeal if you absolutely really only want one device that does everything but not having the perfect tool for a specific job would just annoy me.

I don't like using a laptop in my lap. I have a large gut and its not comfy. I would prefer to just use the pen.

I don't get all the reviewers complaining as I dont' have a problem with the surface rt on my lap but whatever

I still personally think MS missed out on a huge opportunity by not including a keyboard dock that basically allows it to transform into a notebook when needed. The type covers are nice for lighter tablets, but for a full power x86 tablet, I really think a keyboard dock is required.

Regards,
SB

From the reddit today

Does Microsoft have any plans for an external battery or for a thicker keyboard cover that has an extra battery? Or, if I want an external battery brick, is there a third party one I can buy that can be used with the surface.

Surfaceteam:

That would require extending the design of the accessory spine to include some way to transfer higher current between the peripheral and the main battery. Which we did...

and:

What are the new connectors on the bottom of the Surface Pro for?

SurfaceTeam:

Wow - I'm pumped you caught that - we haven't announced what they are for but they aren't an accident! At launch we talked about the "accessory spine" and hinted at future peripherals that can click in and do more. Those connectors look like can carry more current than the pogo pins, don't they?

I'm just worried I will buy a type cover only to find out that a type cover with battery comes out like a month later.

 

[Grall]

Then you have a spare cover, if you splurge for the battery cover.

Anyway, I doubt they'll put a battery in the cover. It would be too thick and heavy, and the cover wouldn't stick to the tablet in its folded-up position (assuming it uses magnets, like ipad covers do.)

 

[Xmas]

That's the part I don't get: how is it better than a laptop if you can't even use it on your lap like other laptops? It seems like a master of none product to me?

I can see some of the appeal if you absolutely really only want one device that does everything but not having the perfect tool for a specific job would just annoy me.

I suppose it depends on what the specific job is. As a laptop it obvously isn't perfect, but personally I'm looking for a notebook (i.e. tablet with pen input) and a portable desktop PC (to use on a table, potentially docking a full-size mouse, keyboard and monitor).

It's obviously not perfect for these uses either. It's too thick, heavy and hot, a 16:10 or 3:2 aspect ratio would be better, and it lacks a Thunderbolt port. Battery life could be better, though 4h is sufficient for me (I'd rather take less weight than more battery life). But I think it's serving a certain segment of the market better than other solutions and I expect large improvements from the next generation (thinner, lighter, Thunderbolt).

I'm tempted. The question to me is whether it's worth to get one now and sell it before the second/third generation comes out.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I'm just worried I will buy a type cover only to find out that a type cover with battery comes out like a month later.

That's encouraging but I don't see a mechanism there to actually "lock" it into the dock. Guess we'll have to wait and see what they have in mind.

Assuming that whatever they release is sturdy enough to double as a notebook in the lap and extends battery life to ~10-11 hours web browsing, that would be a significant improvement in useability. At that point it would truly be a device that could replace a persons tablet, notebook, and desktop.

Assuming 10.1" isn't too small for someone's personal preference of laptops. For the desktop it's easy enough to just use the mini-DP connector to connect to a real display.

Regards,
SB

 

[Mintmaster]

if you want a physical keyboard on my lap, I want it to be stable too. The kickstand doesn't make this impossible, it just feels flimsy. (I'm not going to watch a 17min video, sorry. I'm sure those 2 year also are doing a fine job.)

I put a time code in the YT link so you should have seen it in the first few seconds. Here's another video of a guy putting it in his lap while on a balance ball.

16:9 has been the standard aspect ratio for ages now. If it sucked so badly then the PC manufacturers clinging to 4:3 way back or 16:10 more recently would be making a killing. FYI, a Nexus 10 (16:10) offers only 1/8" more vertical dimension than Surface, so just zoom out and make it equivalent if that's what you want. 16:10 with a taskbar and tabs is basically a 16:9 anyway, so that's not much different than browsing on a 16:9 tablet.

but a screen that's too small for regular laptop usage. My MacBook Air 11" have been gathering dust for this reason also.

Well, that's subjective. Taiwan (90% of laptop production) produced more <12" than 13" last year.

My tablet only leaves my home when flying.
...
I'm very fast at screen keyboard typing (95% of my post here are done this way), so it doesn't really bother me.

That's not really the usage model that MS is targeting. It's no wonder that you don't have much interest in it.

 

[silent_guy]

16:9 has been the standard aspect ratio for ages now. If it sucked so badly then the PC manufacturers clinging to 4:3 way back or 16:10 more recently would be making a killing.

Maybe because that's a false comparison? I haven't seen many laptop users tilt their screen in portrait mode, which is the predominant way of using a tablet. Using the Surface RT in portrait mode feels really ridiculous.

FYI, a Nexus 10 (16:10) offers only 1/8" more vertical dimension than Surface, so just zoom out and make it equivalent if that's what you want.

The Android tablet aspect ratio was already non-optimal for portrait use. The Surface makes this 10% worse.

Well, that's subjective. Taiwan (90% of laptop production) produced more <12" than 13" last year.

It's all subjective.

That's not really the usage model that MS is targeting. It's no wonder that you don't have much interest in it.

Is not ideal as a tablet. It's not ideal as laptop. Obviously, there are people who think the right compromises were made. Good for them.