*spin-off* Importance of Backward Compatibility Discussion

Digital games are probably a "mess" now. Today, I get Zen Pinball on both Vita and PS3 for the price of one. Note that this is not b/c but cross-buy (Buy 1 get 1 free). Zen Pinball for PS4 is probably going to cost me a little extra since it's yet another platform, unless Sony pull another cross-buy deal.

I buy digital games these days because of Vita and cross-play. When I lost my PSP and the first Vita, I lost the games in the devices and carrying cases as well. Now at least my games are safe on PSN.


If they centralize all digital games to Gaikai, it will be much cleaner. The games will either be downloaded progressively, or streamed to multiple platforms.


It is unclear how Sony will tweak PS+ when Gaikai is ready.

The way Zen has treated Pinball as a platform I would not be surprised if all our PS3 and Vita tables plug straight into the PS4 client for no additional charge. Considering how MS blocks them from allowing Pinball FX tables you bought on xbla to work in the Windows 8 version at no extra charge, I hold no such hopes for anything on Durango.

I'm thinking for PS Plus the game collection won't be a feature from day one for PS4, but things like cloud saves and potentially many of the social video features will require a subscription.
 
Yeah, it is a bit of an irony, that Zen Pinball is available on almost everything but PC right now (save one table in Windows 8 or so last I checked).

Zen is working on expanding their cross buy across all platforms btw. And I sure would be pleased if they come with a PS4 client that plays all 28 of the tables I currently own in 1080p 3D 60 fps, as it currently looks amazing in 3D already, but is a bit laggy. I could imagine some neat features for the new controller too, like camera control through the Move features or head-tracking. Next week 3 more tables come out btw.

But yeah, even if I eventually retire my PS3s, I still have the fantastic Vita version, which I play the most just because it is so insanely responsive.

I think DLC and the existence of high-end PC version will drive publishers to release 'updated' versions for next-gen consoles for some games, but GaiKai will definitely be an important avenue for Sony for multi-platform stuff. PS1 and PS2 emulation on PC is already trivial, and I expect we could see a GaiKai streaming service for those coming to Vita and phones fairly soon.
 
No BC for PS4 is a dissapointment for me. But yeah, I sort of stop buying stuff from PSN in anticipation of PS Meeting. So at the moment, I think I'm just going to stop buying stuff on PSN. I was about to rebuy some of my discs stuff on PSN too as they pop up. It's nice having no disc.

It would be nice for devs to port their games to PS4 for PSN on PS4 launch. I hope they do that so I can buy it for PS4 then. But as of now, I am not going to. Maybe I'll change my mind later but I'm going to switch to PC gaming in the mean time.

I still think Sony should have went with a full and faster Cell + Kepler for PS4 and have BC. Having to play your old games with better graphics and frame rate is a good feature for a new console. GT6 will probably show up in PS4 second or third year, which mean still a very long time. It would be nice to play GT5 with better frame rate and higher resolution and more AA during that time on PS4.

IMO BC is important, because the first year of console life is normally not very good in term of games. I mean I play more Wii games on Wii U, the same with Vita (PSP) and 3DS (DS) too.

Digital purchases actually become more interesting when you have full streaming. Dont forget that the PS4 is not the only thing that can be streamed to. Realistically, any device that has a USB port and a Strong Internet connection can receive a Gai Kai stream, thus completely changing the model of console ownership. And at that point, buying games digitally becomes far more valuable. Play your games ANY where is hard to pass up. But this wouldn't work if you bought your games on a disk.
 
Digital purchases actually become more interesting when you have full streaming. Dont forget that the PS4 is not the only thing that can be streamed to. Realistically, any device that has a USB port and a Strong Internet connection can receive a Gai Kai stream, thus completely changing the model of console ownership. And at that point, buying games digitally becomes far more valuable. Play your games ANY where is hard to pass up. But this wouldn't work if you bought your games on a disk.

I guess they can allow PS4 to continuously recognize the existence of the game and allow you to play your game on another device. Just a possibility:smile:
 
One factor in multi-platform PS3 b/c is that the user may get a better experience running a PC port on PS4. e.g., I heard PC and 360 Skyrim run better than the PS3 version. Such "automatic upgrade" may be more interesting than straight b/c.

So given a choice, the user may opt to use PC/360 ports instead of the PS3 version.

The first party PS3 games would be more of a headache for b/c.
 
Ooo, I'd be in favour. Sell PC ports on PS3 of Trine and Borderlands and Skyrim and all those UE3 games that juddered along on PS3 playing in high quality. I like that idea. Depends what the porting effort is, but that might be considerable from DirectX to PS4. Maybe T.B. has been busily at work at SCEE creating a DirectX VM/translator type thing for PS4? :mrgreen:
 
Hmm, interesting idea. What about the license? I assume MS would want a cut...considering these ran on Windows with DirectX....Unless they do WINE.
 
Various programmers have done the exact same thing for PS3 - write a layer that translates DirectX calls to something the PS3 likes.
 
Hmm, interesting idea. What about the license? I assume MS would want a cut...considering these ran on Windows with DirectX....Unless they do WINE.

If Sony push b/c responsibility to the publishers, it's probably counted as a nextgen re-release, potentially with discount or cross-buy for PS+ members. For DirectX API, if the devs or Sony roll their own layers, it should be fine.

Although they said Gaikai can stream PS3 software, personally I think they just meant using Gaikai to download these (large) games progressively.
 
Ooo, I'd be in favour. Sell PC ports on PS3 of Trine and Borderlands and Skyrim and all those UE3 games that juddered along on PS3 playing in high quality. I like that idea. Depends what the porting effort is, but that might be considerable from DirectX to PS4. Maybe T.B. has been busily at work at SCEE creating a DirectX VM/translator type thing for PS4? :mrgreen:

What I find funny is that you can already do all this just by gaming on pc in the first place. I own all three of the games you mention, Borderlands, Skyrim and Trine, and I can play them on my office pc, from my couch on the pc connected to the home theater tv, on my tablet, on my laptop, at home, outside on the hammock, on the train, at a friends house, at a coffee shop, etc, etc, etc. I don't need an online connection, I don't have to stream anything, I don't have to do anything special, and I don't have to rebuy the app. My one purchase works everywhere, I simply choose where, when and how I want to play and, well, I play, no magic sauce needed :) Now if they would just add Durango to that fold I'd be really happy.
 
The reasons would be:
I don't have/want a PC. ^_^
My gaming friends are all on PSN.
I play other PS3 games too.

I imagine the side effect of re-releasing on PS4 is the games should be on Gaikai platform (run-time and contractually) due to PS4 RemotePlay, which should make the game runnabe on other supported platforms (Vita and possibly PC and Macs ?).

If it's just plain old b/c, we are still left with a disconnected digital world on Playstations.

*If* this is where they want to go, they will likely drop other weight/baggages and head there asap.

If they continue to support the platform, then they can spend more time optimizing specifically for PS4 and also work on more native DLCs.
 
The reasons would be:
I don't have/want a PC. ^_^
My gaming friends are all on PSN.
I play other PS3 games too.

I guess you guys will just have to keep on waiting then and deal with your limited setup, limited friends lists, rebuying your games, limited play range, limited play devices, etc. Sounds like a pain to me, I have no interest in that anymore in 2013 that's for sure.

On the other hand Skype is pretty standard and looks like it will be on Durango, so all my friends will be everywhere, I'll be able to text or video chat with friends regardless of platform (pc, laptop, tablet, console, etc). So the whole "my friends aren't there" will be a non issue soon at least on one platform, it's solved. The game side is almost solved as well, it's so close! Guess I'll know more at e3.
 
I guess you guys will just have to keep on waiting then and deal with your limited setup, limited friends lists, rebuying your games, limited play range, limited play devices, etc. Sounds like a pain to me, I have no interest in that anymore in 2013 that's for sure.

On the other hand Skype is pretty standard and looks like it will be on Durango, so all my friends will be everywhere, I'll be able to text or video chat with friends regardless of platform (pc, laptop, tablet, console, etc). So the whole "my friends aren't there" will be a non issue soon at least on one platform, it's solved. The game side is almost solved as well, it's so close! Guess I'll know more at e3.

The problem with the PC platform is that you have everything except some of the best games ever made.Without a PS3 i would have missed the GOD OF WAR series, the KILLZONE series, The Uncharted Series and yadidadida.. you know the brag list and the 360 is just as good with exclusives.

If the Durango games goes PC as well then there is no need for a 720, i would just need a PS4 and my 6GB graphics card to keep on rollin on my pc. That makes me doubt that there will be shared games between the 2 platforms, at least when it comes to 1st party games.
 
The problem with the PC platform is that you have everything except some of the best games ever made.Without a PS3 i would have missed the GOD OF WAR series, the KILLZONE series, The Uncharted Series and yadidadida.. you know the brag list and the 360 is just as good with exclusives.

Well I try not to count exclusives because then it's not a fair fight as pc has by far the most exclusives. Plus there's no point in arguing tit for tat on exclusives anyways as they don't have the same interest for everyone. For example I'd rather play PID on pc than all the Killzone games combined. but that's me. If someone is hung up on playing a particular game on a particular platform then they are stuck and will have to live with the limitations of that platform. That's up to them. I'm just not one of those people anymore, if the platform is run in an archaic manner then I have no interest in it anymore. It's not like there's a shortage of games out there, I'll just go elsewhere and play on a more modern platform.


If the Durango games goes PC as well then there is no need for a 720, i would just need a PS4 and my 6GB graphics card to keep on rollin on my pc. That makes me doubt that there will be shared games between the 2 platforms, at least when it comes to 1st party games.

I don't think they will go that far right away, but what I would like is that Durango at least use the same Windows app store as pc does. Right now for example they are in the process of getting Windows Phone 8 to share code with Windows 8, but not only is it not totally there yet but Windows Phone 8 still uses a separate app store. This is retarded for many reasons, not the least of which means people have to rebuy the same app on phone if they have it already on Windows 8. Also it's doesn't share saves which is equally archaic. Simple example there, the Windows 8 games I've put out use roaming saves. So if you play on tablet, then put that down and go play on pc your save game automatically follows you there. Then if you go play on a laptop likewise your save game follows you there as well. They have that platform synched up nicely, one purchase one save file all automatically handled and it all works, except on their Phone platform which seems to be perpetually behind, and that is stupid, stupid, stupid.

For Durango I don't expect every game to work everywhere, but I would at least like them to take baby steps in that direction to where it uses the same Windows 8 store, some apps there will work everywhere and saves will transfer around. Or to wrap it around my apps again, I want to be able to put my games on Durango, and if someone buys my games there then they can install them on all their other Windows 8 devices as well, the current limit being 5 devices. So if you play it on Durango, then go play the same game on your tablet on the train later your save game will be there automatically and you don't have to rebuy the app. No I don't expect all the games there to do that right away, but I at least hope they have that goal in mind. The big clue there will be the app store, if they go with a totally separate Durango app store then fail, it will imply they aren't ready for that yet. If they use the same Windows 8 app store then cool, that goal is in their targets.

The talk of them getting Skype everywhere gives me hope that they have complete platform convergence in mind, but we'll have to wait and see what happens. At this point in my mind there is no reason to not go in this direction, especially for a company like Microsoft which has devices of all form factors and uses out there. The more convergence they have, the more then can lock people to their ecosystem. This is not a hardware problem anymore as there is enough hardware available in 2013 to make this a reality. It's a software problem, it can be done they just have to be willing to do it.
 
The problem with the PC platform is that you have everything except some of the best games ever made.Without a PS3 i would have missed the GOD OF WAR series, the KILLZONE series, The Uncharted Series and yadidadida.. you know the brag list and the 360 is just as good with exclusives.

If the Durango games goes PC as well then there is no need for a 720, i would just need a PS4 and my 6GB graphics card to keep on rollin on my pc. That makes me doubt that there will be shared games between the 2 platforms, at least when it comes to 1st party games.


Going forward, I'd say it's even more critical for these consoles to have exclusives not available on the PC because their tech will be so similar to a PC.

So if the games are available on a PC and the PC can be easily upgraded to blow past the console experience, then their is no point in the console unless it offers other experiences that the PC can't or isn't good at.
 
I don't buy that. Most console gamers are there for ease, cost, comfort and familiarity. If people were just on consoles for exclusives the multiplat games would not move nearly so well on consoles.
 
What I find funny is that you can already do all this just by gaming on pc in the first place.
Yes, but PC is still a different beast. I've investigated switching to PC, and I've mentioned on here before how the new consoles are affecting my choices. But I also posted a thread to identify what's different, and it's clear PC is not a 1:1 substitute. There's a higher initial entry price. That can be debated, it's always changing, and the PC Warriors will argue incessantly about better value, but initial hardware price is still an issue. Then there's library, and Sony is still excellent at providing games that I like the look of and which aren't available on PC. Then there's the issue of how the gamer is perceived, and consoles getting better local coop support. eg. Diablo 3 is getting local same-screen coop on consoles.

There's a whole other, tired, relentless conversation for console's vs. PC. Suffice to say for this thread about the value of BC in consoles, Sony managing to secure BC from some titles by leveraging PC hardware similarities would be a potentially cheap way to get some BC. It probably wouldn't do a lot of good for its key franchises which remain exclusives, but it wouldn't hurt and it would add value to make me more receptive to upgrading earlier on.
 
Well Shifty, you would hope for a hack on PS4 to run Win on, both worlds in one. ;)

Like you, the co-op local is a "Need" function for me, and Diablo 3 in local co-op is really interested. PC actually is for egoistic gamer, games services (Steam, Origin, etc…) are one profile base (games I'm buy, can't be play by my wife on her profile, on the same PC). So PC is not a convivial platform gaming actually.
Wait for more infos on these points from the "Steambox".

For B/C on PS4 and Duran(Duran)go(to Hollywood)… Not free, PSN++/Platinum Live, and/or a paid by title.
For Sony titles, dev tools was on PC? Are there a relativity "not hard way" to make a PS4 version? Not for all games but like I'm already saying for the most important, and PSN. Don't known if dev tool can incorporate this type of option
 
I guess you guys will just have to keep on waiting then and deal with your limited setup, limited friends lists, rebuying your games, limited play range, limited play devices, etc. Sounds like a pain to me, I have no interest in that anymore in 2013 that's for sure.

On the other hand Skype is pretty standard and looks like it will be on Durango, so all my friends will be everywhere, I'll be able to text or video chat with friends regardless of platform (pc, laptop, tablet, console, etc). So the whole "my friends aren't there" will be a non issue soon at least on one platform, it's solved. The game side is almost solved as well, it's so close! Guess I'll know more at e3.

Having the game on PC solve none of my problem because I don't own one anymore. I expect the console online gaming experience will indeed improve over time.

I also don't need Skype on my console. It's there on Vita but I never used it. I may want FaceTime though for calling my wife.

Ultimately, I think if they centralize their online experience on Gaikai, it should be easier to move the entire experience to and across multiple platforms. PCs and Macs can be part of the experience too.
 
The problem with the PC platform is that you have everything except some of the best games ever made.Without a PS3 i would have missed the GOD OF WAR series, the KILLZONE series, The Uncharted Series and yadidadida.. you know the brag list and the 360 is just as good with exclusives.

My view on this, and this stands for exclusives to any platform is that yeah, there are some terrific exclusives available regardless of theplatform you choose, be that xbox, playstation, Wii U or even to a much lesser extent PC.

Regardless of which platform you get you'll be missing out on some great games unless you buy multiple platforms. But the thing is, that every system has so many great AAA games that no normal person can actually play them all anyway. So yeah, maybe if I'm an xbox gamer I'm jealous of Uncharted or maybe if I'm a playstation gamer I'm jealous of Halo. But at the end of the day, I've got more than enough great games to play as it is so if Uncharted was suddently released on my platform, which other great game would I have to give up to play it?

I think the availability of high profile exclusives is often more about bragging rights than it is about any kind of practical advantage.
 
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