*spin-off* Importance of Backward Compatibility Discussion

[Cheezdoodles]

An observation is pretty meaningless without the explanation why. I posit that those CODs are in there because 1) People like playing COD and 2) later COD's weren't enough of a change to justify a new purchase when the old COD is still enjoyable.

Have you ever played cod?

There were two developers , infinity ward ( who created the series and made all the good versions) and treyarch (who systematically achieves significantly lower review scores than IW).

That's why people are playing the modern warfare series AND black ops series even though one is newer than the other. They play differently!
IW games are in general more polished, more balanced and more groundbreaking. Furthermore , there has always been differences in pace. IW games in general are faster. BLOPS is slightly slower than MW for instance.

Treyarch just takes what IW made last year and create content, they don't really change much of the actual engine

 

[tuna]

It seems Sony didn't get the memo then: WSJ: PS4 to stream PS3 games

A horrible product is still horrible.

 

[dagamer]

A horrible product is still horrible.

I like to experience before I judge.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I like to experience before I judge.

If it's twice as good as onlive it will still be awful.

 

[Arwin]

OnLive was very good when I tried it last year.

 

[ERP]

Did anyone read the original WSJ article? Just wondering if they are quoting Sony or 3rd party sources or speculating.

 

[patsu]

Looks like the article paraphrased a source:
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=47777881&postcount=1

 

[orangpelupa]

eurogamer posted that PS4 wont have PS3 compatibility at all, the PSN games also not work :/

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-21-psn-games-wont-transfer-to-ps4

Does the PSN game runs "close to the metal" just like Disc game on PS3 so it cant be run on PS4?

how about XBLA games? It seems XBLA running on some kind of high layer on Xbox 360, so how plausible is the next xbox to be able to play XBLA?

 

[patsu]

I think they are referring to native apps/games in PSN in general. There are some, like Minis, that are easily portable.

But in PS4, it is possible they want to make a clean leap into Playstation World. Will probably have to wait for more info.

 

[bkilian]

eurogamer posted that PS4 wont have PS3 compatibility at all, the PSN games also not work :/

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-21-psn-games-wont-transfer-to-ps4

Does the PSN game runs "close to the metal" just like Disc game on PS3 so it cant be run on PS4?

how about XBLA games? It seems XBLA running on some kind of high layer on Xbox 360, so how plausible is the next xbox to be able to play XBLA?

XBLA uses the same APIs as normal XBox games. It would have the same issues with back compat. XBLIG, on the other hand, would transfer over easily.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Although oddly, MS are abandoning XNA. I can't see why they'd do that if they want to maintain compatibility with Durango. What's the alternative? Is there a Win 8 platform instead? Maybe they'll support XNA games but end development and switch to Win8?

 

[dagamer]

Although oddly, MS are abandoning XNA. I can't see why they'd do that if they want to maintain compatibility with Durango. What's the alternative? Is there a Win 8 platform instead? Maybe they'll support XNA games but end development and switch to Win8?

Windows 8 platform. Abandoning XNA was obvious when it was clear Windows 8 wouldn't support back in 2011 when the first Windows 8 Developer Preview build was released.

 

[Gubbi]

Although oddly, MS are abandoning XNA. I can't see why they'd do that if they want to maintain compatibility with Durango. What's the alternative? Is there a Win 8 platform instead? Maybe they'll support XNA games but end development and switch to Win8?

They want people to move to Win RT (me, speculating)

Cheers

 

[orangpelupa]

thanks bkilian, my mind kind of messed up between XBLA and XBLIG. Both of them on the Metro dashboard appear on the same tab :/

btw shifty, about the move abandoning XNA.
Maybe they will make next xbox "XNA games" compatible with Microsoft Store (or whatever their online store are named) and compatible (or atleast easily portable) with their array of devices that can access Microsoft Store.

 

[Bigduo209]

I'm surprised how many people on here and other gaming-oriented sites are comfortable with no backwards compatibility.

I mean we're talking about a time where our phones are now serving multiple functions, but when it comes to this issue it's "streaming is the future", "Use your PS3/PS2 or GTFO", or "who care about backwards compatibility".

Really? I mean there's got to be more validity to the argument than that. I thought the point of backwards compatibility wasn't to just ease consumers into a new gaming console, but also show why consumers would choose to stick to their previous gaming platform of choice, and why brand loyalty keeps them from abandoning them for the competition.

Maybe this is just Sony trying to sweep the PS3 under the rug since it was what almost killed them in the first place. It's probably them using this as an opportunity to start over completely and drag-in consumers with what they're offering for this generation, but not using the leverage of their previous console could really put in a tough spot should MS announce something better (but that may not happen).

It seems Sony didn't get the memo then: WSJ: PS4 to stream PS3 games

I'd feel better if Sony released some kind of hardware add-on, something that you can plug in through USB 3.0 or a proprietary port to run PS3/PS2/PS1 games.

The Gaikai option is utter bullshit since it...

1. Depends on your internet connection (or lack thereof).

2. Might involve re-buying your games.

3. Could be limited to only a select few titles instead of your whole gaming library (technical and legal hurdles) .

 

[Strange]

I'd rather Sony to not place a PS3 in the PS4 (and call it a PS7) and sell it for 1~200 bucks less.

Problem isn't if they want to do it, but PS4 hardware simply cannot run PS3 coded games without issues. Different architecture, etc.

Besides, Gaikai seems like a good enough alternative for me for "new" old games that I haven't bought.
If I really care about my old games and have the media, I'd have an old PS2 or PS3 to run them anyway, so I don't really see that much of an issue.

 

[Npl]

I also still have my PS2, but the lack of hdmi really annoys me - the noise is really apparent to me, and digital filters to smooth this out often make things worse.
Add to that that the PS2 titles on PSN that run with some kind of emulation offer some nice upscaling aswell. And I dunno what Ill do if the thing dies on me.

I understand that some people dont like having to pay for BC they wont use, but I have a problem with not having the option at all. Having to pay for an addon would easily put a measureable tag on the validity of BC instead of useless tautlogical conjectures like "PS3 buyers bought the PS3, PS3 has no BC , so BC is not usefull"

With the same logic against BC, I really hope I can buy a ~50$ cheaper PS4 without an deadweight HDD which I will replace anyway. I guess buying such a SKU would also prove HDD are useless =)

 

[Strange]

I also still have my PS2, but the lack of hdmi really annoys me - the noise is really apparent to me, and digital filters to smooth this out often make things worse.
Add to that that the PS2 titles on PSN that run with some kind of emulation offer some nice upscaling aswell. And I dunno what Ill do if the thing dies on me.

I understand that some people dont like having to pay for BC they wont use, but I have a problem with not having the option at all. Having to pay for an addon would easily put a measureable tag on the validity of BC instead of useless tautlogical conjectures like "PS3 buyers bought the PS3, PS3 has no BC , so BC is not usefull"

With the same logic against BC, I really hope I can buy a ~50$ cheaper PS4 without an deadweight HDD which I will replace anyway. I guess buying such a SKU would also prove HDD are useless =)

So you're suggesting that PS4 should include the full Cell and RSX just because you want the option of having it?
Why not throw in full PS2 compatibility too? BC needs to stop somewhere. There comes a point when the cost of doing it outweighs the benefits and gets ridiculous.
It's apparent by looking at the HW and costs included that Sony didn't see the benefits outweigh the negatives. Therefore they took it out. Live with it and move on.



Personally I still don't see why BC is that important and why people make such a big deal out of it.
If you own any of the titles you probably have a PS3 anyway.
Not having full hardware BC only really affects people that want to buy a PS4 but want to play and buy PS3 games, or have their PS3 die recently.
I am aware that people would want to have one machine only, but think of it really. It's not as if you don't still have the option of using the old PS3 to run the games.

If you draw a Venn diagram and identify the people that will truly be affected by this HW decision I believe you'll find that there really isn't that many.
Provided with today's options there are many workarounds to a lot of people's issues. Many of them are luxury issues (like noise) instead of real problems.

Just to name a few reasons:
1. Many PS3 titles are also on PC, it's not as if you don't have a method of playing them.
2. If you really do care about PS3 exclusives and own the game on a PS3 disk or PSN, you probably OWN a PS3 by now.
3. BC is not going to benefit PS3 game IQ, unlike the last time around with upscaling.

 

[Albofighter]

There's something I'm wondering about and am not sure if it's been asked. Since most multiplatform games have a pc port, can't sony just put the pc port on psn and to those who already bought the game, they would get it for free or free with ps plus or at a discount. The pc version would also benefit from better frame rate and image quality. I think it's a great idea that kinda goes in line with microsoft's forward compatibility. Not sure if OS changes would need to be implemented but still.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Sony can't do anything with games to which they don't own the rights. They'd need the publisher to do it. Sony would likely need to pay publishers for those 'free' copies.