Will next-gen be the last generation of consoles?

[Deleted member 11852]

imho, the next Xbox is going to be a gaming PC

Um, I don't think so.

I think ievitably the Xbox platform will be a core software platform running on whatever hardware you want, i.e. your Windows PC. It makes total sense for Microsoft to get out of the hardware business because the profit in the console market is in platform licensing, platform subscriptions and game sales. However you will need someone to be building console-esque PC hardware for those than don't want a big box - and they already exist.

Windows includes a bunch of kiosk mode environments, a Xbox mode which just booted Windows 10 into a controller-friendly environment to play Xbox One games surely isn't that much of a stretch.

 

[Shortbread]

I think ievitably the Xbox platform will be a core software platform running on whatever hardware you want, i.e. your Windows PC.

100%. This has always been Microsoft's long-term strategy.

It makes total sense for Microsoft to get out of the hardware business because the profit in the console market is in platform licensing, platform subscriptions and game sales.

I agree that console hardware margins/profit are quite low, especially during the first 2-3 years. However, it would be a mistake for Microsoft to exit the console hardware space of gaming, IMHO. They haven't licensed the Xbox Gaming Platform (yet) in the same vein as Valve/Steam (i.e., Steam Machine/Box vendors) has, so there is no guarantees that an Xbox-Gaming-Only platform built by multiple vendors will work. Something Valve/Steam still hasn't cracked or truly gotten right. If anything, Microsoft will keep down same path within the PC space of providing Xbox Gaming Services through current and future OS integrations and iterations. But yes, I don't see them exiting the console space without a major shift from PC manufacturers towards providing a more unified platform/hardware experience, which a standalone Xbox console provides.

That being said, I can see Microsoft licensing Xbox Gaming Platform and streaming services through cable-TV providers (i.e., Comcast, WOW, AT&T, etc.), that can cover millions of paying customers. Microsoft can actually lead the charge with better gaming services with cable-TV providers whom provide communication services to the hotel and vacationing resorts industries. Have you seen/played the shi*** gaming services that hotels and vacationing resorts currently provide in their rooms? Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo can vastly improve these experiences within these industries (including the cruiselines and airport/airplane industry).

However you will need someone to be building console-esque PC hardware for those than don't want a big box - and they already exist.

I know about Steam Machine/Box vendors doing so. Are there manufacturers providing Xbox-Gaming-Only PCs (meaning, nontraditional PC OS, Xbox gaming only environment, simply a console masking behind beefier PC hardware)?

Windows includes a bunch of kiosk mode environments, a Xbox mode which just booted Windows 10 into a controller-friendly environment to play Xbox One games surely isn't that much of a stretch.

I'm pretty sure you can, but I haven't tried it.

 

[Cyan]

What constitutes a gaming PC though? If XBN runs Windows 10, and can run Windows 10 applications, it's a PC. In fact, any console that supports KBM is pretty much a PC thanks to cloud-based applications, so you can already use you console for spreadsheets and word-processing. @Cyan really needs to define what he means.

they have peculiar plans going on for the Xbox. Look at Halo The Master Chief Collection. the PC version is not only the best version out there, but its online is free! It includes Halo Reach for free, which previous owners of the MCC collection like me have to pay for.

It could well be that the hardware that we are expecting from MS to come out for "Xbox" might not be a console at all. They could be gaming PCs that are just easier to carry, produce less heat but they run actual Windows. Either that or porting all the Xbox game over to the PC.

The KBM move with Razor is not casual:

Also, this words from the mouth of the very chief, Phil. Sounds like they are transforming the Xbox.

"Delivering great gaming experience to PC players is critically important to the future of Xbox and gaming at Microsoft, We have a responsibility to invest in new ways we can benefit the PC player to help ensure they stay at the center of the experience.

While we are proud of our PC gaming heritage, we’ve made some mistakes along our journey. We know we have to move forward, informed by our past, with the unique wants, needs and challenges of the PC player at the center of decisions we make. I know we’ve talked quite a bit over time about what we want to deliver for the player on PC, but at E3 this year, and throughout 2019, you’ll begin to see where we’ve been investing to deliver across Store, services, in Windows and in great games. It’s just the beginning."

 

[Cyan]

100%. This has always been Microsoft's long-term strategy.



I agree that console hardware margins/profit are quite low, especially during the first 2-3 years. However, it would be a mistake for Microsoft to exit the console hardware space of gaming, IMHO. They haven't licensed the Xbox Gaming Platform (yet) in the same vein as Valve/Steam (i.e., Steam Machine/Box vendors) has, so there is no guarantees that an Xbox-Gaming-Only platform built by multiple vendors will work. Something Valve/Steam still hasn't cracked or truly gotten right. If anything, Microsoft will keep down same path within the PC space of providing Xbox Gaming Services through current and future OS integrations and iterations. But yes, I don't see them exiting the console space without a major shift from PC manufacturers towards providing a more unified platform/hardware experience, which a standalone Xbox console provides.

That being said, I can see Microsoft licensing Xbox Gaming Platform and streaming services through cable-TV providers (i.e., Comcast, WOW, AT&T, etc.), that can cover millions of paying customers. Microsoft can actually lead the charge with better gaming services with cable-TV providers whom provide communication services to the hotel and vacationing resorts industries. Have you seen/played the shi*** gaming services that hotels and vacationing resorts currently provide in their rooms? Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo can vastly improve these experiences within these industries (including the cruiselines and airport/airplane industry).



I know about Steam Machine/Box vendors doing so. Are there manufacturers providing Xbox-Gaming-Only PCs (meaning, nontraditional PC OS, Xbox gaming only environment, simply a console masking behind beefier PC hardware)?



I'm pretty sure you can, but I haven't tried it.

this article kinda sums it all up:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019...g-step-towards-putting-xbox-games-on-windows/

Xbox One X. But what good is a monolithic box without some software to test on it?

New Windows 10 builds are using Xbox's infrastructure for Windows games.

Ever since the first Xbox was released, an obvious question has been hanging in the air: Microsoft already owns one of the premier gaming platforms, the PC, and both the original Xbox and the current Xbox One are more or less PCs anyway, so when is Microsoft going to bring the two together and let us play Xbox games on Windows? With the new Windows 10 builds, it looks like the company is taking some big steps in that direction.

Also, this news, very important PC gaming announcements from MS at E3 2019.

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/software/expect_pc_gaming_announcements_from_microsoft_at_e3_2019/1

planning to expand its Xbox ecosystem beyond the confines of console hardware, breaking many of the boundaries that stand between several gaming platforms on the process.

now, Halo MCC, in its PC version, is the best version out there........

 

[Jay]

Microsoft already owns one of the premier gaming platforms, the PC

I always find that kind of statement funny.
The reason ms was looking at putting adds in windows 10 and created the windows store was to try and monitize consumer windows 10.
Well one of the reasons for the store.

It's an open platform that they get little from.
A game played on windows doesn't inherently make money for them.
Once windows is bought, they don't get anything else out of it.
I would say valve currently owns the pc market.
They get a cut from every game sale and don't even have to invest in the OS or give MS anything.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

now, Halo MCC, in its PC version, is the best version out there........

Has somebody seen/reviewed it?

 

[Nisaaru]

Windows includes a bunch of kiosk mode environments, a Xbox mode which just booted Windows 10 into a controller-friendly environment to play Xbox One games surely isn't that much of a stretch.

So who will invest a few Billion to develop and launch this mythical PC console then? AMD? Nope. Intel? Nope. Apple/Google? Could do it but with their own SW environment which wouldn't be in MS interest. Anybody else? No.

So your conclusion is pretty unlikely to happen unless hardware becomes completely meaningless because it's generic/fast/low-power/low-noise.

 

[AlNom]

Why couldnt it just be any of the same vendors that tried launching steam machines or current gaming computers (alienware, VR backpacks etc)? That’s whom DSoup is referencing, I think.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

So who will invest a few Billion to develop and launch this mythical PC console then? AMD? Nope. Intel? Nope. Apple/Google? Could do it but with their own SW environment which wouldn't be in MS interest. Anybody else? No. Nobody.

Why do you need a few billion to slap together a bunch of PC components and install Windows 10 in Xbox kiosk mode? All the hard work is done. It's no different to how a lot of people already buy PCs. What PC-as-a-console-replacement lacks is the controller-driven console-like experience.

 

[Nisaaru]

Why couldnt it just be any of the same vendors that tried launching steam machines or current gaming computers (alienware, VR backpacks etc)? That’s whom DSoup is referencing, I think.

Because they aren't good enough for a *console* which cost a lot money to deliver currently.

 

[Nisaaru]

Why do you need a few billion to slap together a bunch of PC components and install Windows 10 in Xbox kiosk mode? All the hard work is done. It's no different to how a lot of people already buy PCs. What PC-as-a-console-replacement lacks is the controller-driven console-like experience.

No, what PC as a console replacement lacks is the best possible compromise of form factor/noise/price/performance which requires a custom design currently. Maybe for you it's ok to put a PC-as-a-console-replacement in your living environment or can live with the limits of generic mini pcs but that's not the case for most people who are in the console market.

It's weird why I even need to argue this

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That best possible compromise will give way to convenience and a broad-spectra industry standard, same way all movies ended up on one media player. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what hardware a game runs on as long as it plays. A standard would mean you can buy whatever hardware and play your games, then upgrade and still play your games, and go round your mate's house and play your games on his different box, exactly the same as you can with movies.

In the past, consoles' unique hardware advantages meant this wasn't possible, but as everything is tending towards a hardware standard and people are wanting to game more generically (Fortnite and Minecraft on every device ever), the hardware becomes less and less important.

All it needs is for the digital download stores to give a small cut to the HW manufacturer to blow open the whole industry. You'd get effective competition for different hardware designs, more choice (which is good and bad), and not be stuck with profit-on-hardware prices which is what keeps PCs notably more expensive than consoles. So, for example, Dell can make an 'Xbox PC' and sell it at cost, taking 5% of every dollar spent through that box to give them their profits, and then you can have a more expensive Alienware 'Xbox PC' that has profit on the hardware for the more hardcore gamer.

 

[Jay]

How do you force the store fronts to give any share to the Hardware oem's?
The OS is open.
Or are you also suggesting locking down the OS also?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The whole point of Xbox becoming a standard is for MS to sell stuff through their store front, same as Google and Apple. Potentially, the hardware manufacturers could lock down which stores could be used to those who give them a cut- it's a symbiotic partnership between IHVs creating PCs to sell games to and the stores to sell those games, so a mutually amicable arrangement should be possible.

It could go something like MS release a console-like dash to Windows that only accesses Windows Store. IHVs get a cut of that. Eventually the EU cries foul and forces MS to open up their console to other storefronts even though Apple get away with it scot free, at which point using the hardware specific ID previously agreed upon in the Xbox PC standard, the storefronts give a cut to the IHV to preserve a sustainable model.

 

[Jay]

Couple issues I forsee

1. MS releasing games to other stores like steam
2. MS is unlikely to make the console shell locked down to any store, if they make it windows store exclusive will people actually use it
3. Whilst the OS is open I doubt any storefront will give oem's a cut, they just don't need to.

A year ago before MS putting things like MCC on steam day and date I could see them trying to fix the store and its pretty much a given that they have a console CShell.
Just not sure if all that plays out in the way that would work in your scenario anymore.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Right now, probably not. But with Play Anywhere growing, every XB console owner is going to want to be buying PC games on Windows Store. With XCloud doing the same, sharing your library by streaming, you'll want to buy everything on Windows Store. They just need to work on the store and then marketed it so those of us who had a look in the early days on Win 10 and said, "what a load of crap," will be tempted to revisit when its all lovely. They certainly can't expect organic growth.

 

[Jay]

Right now, probably not. But with Play Anywhere growing, every XB console owner is going to want to be buying PC games on Windows Store. With XCloud doing the same, sharing your library by streaming, you'll want to buy everything on Windows Store. They just need to work on the store and then marketed it so those of us who had a look in the early days on Win 10 and said, "what a load of crap," will be tempted to revisit when its all lovely. They certainly can't expect organic growth.

The funny thing is, everything you've said I agreed with up until this point in time.
My confidence in them fixing the store and keeping their exclusives on there has gone way down.
If you can buy from steam and get Xbox live integration how many people actually truly care about play anywhere, I'm guessing a very small subset.

Maybe pc gamepass could help, but even there they will face competition on the pc front.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

IHVs get a cut of that. Eventually the EU cries foul and forces MS to open up their console to other storefronts even though Apple get away with it scot free, at which point using the hardware specific ID previously agreed upon in the Xbox PC standard, the storefronts give a cut to the IHV to preserve a sustainable model.

Such pressure from regulators only happens where there is a monopoly and a complaint of unfair practises. Xbox (and Apple) is a long way from that and while Windows is not, anybody can launch a digital store on Windows. It's the same reason why Steam can act how they like, they are not the only option of selling software even if they are arguably the biggest outside of mobile.

But yeah, if Microsoft make it easy for anybody, including OEMs or other vendors, to make an Xbox built on a Microsoft-licensed hypervisor, and they drop out of the hardware business, others still step in. There will be far greater options for people wanting consoles, particularly those of us wanting even more powerful consoles and disposable income to lavish on such items. Actually upgradable consoles would also be an option. Why buy a new console, upgrade your old one just as you would upgrade your PC.

 

[milk]

Why buy a new console, upgrade your old one just as you would upgrade your PC.

Or Sega Genesis!

 

[seahorsesaw]

Mega-ultra high defintion blu-ray add on incoming. Night Trap 2 shot in 4K confirmed exclusive.