No. People expect to play the exact same game, not a similar one. It wouldn't have the same controls, nor interact with PSN, and this wouldn't do anything for PS3-exclusive games which are the ones most likely you'd want to run in the first place.
*spin-off* Importance of Backward Compatibility Discussion
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No. People expect to play the exact same game, not a similar one. It wouldn't have the same controls, nor interact with PSN, and this wouldn't do anything for PS3-exclusive games which are the ones most likely you'd want to run in the first place.
No BC for PS4 is a dissapointment for me. But yeah, I sort of stop buying stuff from PSN in anticipation of PS Meeting. So at the moment, I think I'm just going to stop buying stuff on PSN. I was about to rebuy some of my discs stuff on PSN too as they pop up. It's nice having no disc.
It would be nice for devs to port their games to PS4 for PSN on PS4 launch. I hope they do that so I can buy it for PS4 then. But as of now, I am not going to. Maybe I'll change my mind later but I'm going to switch to PC gaming in the mean time.
I still think Sony should have went with a full and faster Cell + Kepler for PS4 and have BC. Having to play your old games with better graphics and frame rate is a good feature for a new console. GT6 will probably show up in PS4 second or third year, which mean still a very long time. It would be nice to play GT5 with better frame rate and higher resolution and more AA during that time on PS4.
IMO BC is important, because the first year of console life is normally not very good in term of games. I mean I play more Wii games on Wii U, the same with Vita (PSP) and 3DS (DS) too.
It would be nice for devs to port their games to PS4 for PSN on PS4 launch. I hope they do that so I can buy it for PS4 then. But as of now, I am not going to. Maybe I'll change my mind later but I'm going to switch to PC gaming in the mean time.
I still think Sony should have went with a full and faster Cell + Kepler for PS4 and have BC. Having to play your old games with better graphics and frame rate is a good feature for a new console. GT6 will probably show up in PS4 second or third year, which mean still a very long time. It would be nice to play GT5 with better frame rate and higher resolution and more AA during that time on PS4.
IMO BC is important, because the first year of console life is normally not very good in term of games. I mean I play more Wii games on Wii U, the same with Vita (PSP) and 3DS (DS) too.
Way to skip over my whole post and jump to conclusions. An option for me is an option and the price and adoption rate for the BC addon or SKU could be a gauge for exactly how much people are willng to pay for it. How much could a PCIe port cost?
PS should be feasible with software Emulation by now, atleast for a very good portion of the library.
Any my old PS3 is fat and can get loud, I dont want to switch between consoles more than absolutely necessary
Conjecture on your part, given that there is a market for last gen games, port and remakes and companies like gakai who base their existence around it Id say alot.
=/
It's important because people invest alot of money in their gaming library and with the PS3/360 they invest in digital purchases that they don't have a physical copy to keep forever. So they rely on their service providers in order to play the games they paid for. Not being able to play your games on the next consoles is bad service imho. Yes i am aware of the economic involved but that is not the issue here. It's how you treat your customers.
Again i can only say, don't buy DD games, buy a physical copy keep your options open when they close the service that makes your DD's run, prepare for with potential emulators, don't trust Microsoft and Sony to care for you and your needs as a customer.
The "We will always have the old consoles" argument.. ehmm no, they tend to break, i have collected enough to keep me going though, but not all can..
And lets face it, component, composite is going to die at some point (just as s-vhs did), how are we then going to connect the old 360s and PS2's?
I think this is what speaks volumes about backward compatibility. The uncertainty that your current digital purchases will carry over. I want to buy a 720, but not sure when that will be. It could be this year or next, depending on price & features. However, I don't want to buy new purchases for the 360 if they're not going to be compatible with my next system. So I'll hold off purchases too. This is a problem for both Sony & Microsoft. More so for Sony since they have said PSN purchases won't carry over. Basically PSN for PS3 is dead. They have basically told their customers to quit buying games on PSN since they won't carry over. I hope Microsoft doesn't do this. Hopefully they will see the light & see that Live's games & content are worthy of carrying over to the next system.
Tommy McClain
upnorthsox
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But why does the onus fall only on the platform owner? What about the DD Devs? It is their product afterall. If they want me to buy their next product then maybe they need to show more than middle finger for those of us who own their current/previous product. There's lots of ways to mitigate the cost of porting and having product readily available to new customers is a big one.
Adding on 100 USD to the currently rumored 430 USD brings it all the way up to 500+ USD.
We know how the PS3 pricing situation went. PS3 had BC. That spoke to itself.
"your old PS3 is fat and get loud". That's exactly the "luxury" that I was talking about.
Gaikai is offering BC but I doubt that it is the main reason Sony bought Gaikai.
It looks much more like "oh we can also do this fairly easily, so why not?"
It was fairly clear from the getgo that they wanted to open up the possibility of allowing you to play without downloading the game or limiting you on one platform.
It's how you treat customers within your limitations.
Sure I would like to get a full massage and a SPA while I'm waiting in line at a movie theater but it doesn't mean they should do it.
To maintain full compatibility with PS, PS2, all the way up to PS3 (and for some others this list even includes PSP and PSV, and for even worse members they would like to see stufffrom SNES and NES or whatever) we know it would cost too much.
I believe Gaikai will have compatibility with both real disks and PSN. PSN authentication is easy enough. Gaikai could require you to have the disk in your PS4 in order to access the game. In this case buying them over PSN would probably be better.
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I agree it's a disservice to the users.
I suspect they will probably do differently starting with PS4. The contracts, distribution and technologies seem more uniform next gen.
For now, it looks like they will push the issue to the publishers, via cross-buy and other promotion mechanisms when the time is right.
Longer term, I still doubt Gaikai PS3 game streaming. Perhaps only select titles will be available and it doesn't look like a free service anyway.
As for PSN purchase, I think the PS+ users may be ok. They get free and discount games anyway.
I don't think even PS+ users will be immune...
http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/21/sony-psn-games-wont-transfer-to-ps4/
Yeah, they get free titles, but what use are they if you can't use them on the next console? And you're still out the PS+ subscription fee.
Tommy McClain
http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/21/sony-psn-games-wont-transfer-to-ps4/
Yeah, they get free titles, but what use are they if you can't use them on the next console? And you're still out the PS+ subscription fee.
Tommy McClain
You'll get free PS4 titles by then *if* they continue the tradition. ;-)
People have a huge PS+ backlog already.
A few months down the road, they can negotiate for cross-buy or bundling. e.g., on Vita, you get to keep the PS3 and Vita version once you bought either one. That's what I meant by pushing the issues to the publishers.
Personally, I think the bigger challenge is they should really show progress relatively quickly after the event.
People have a huge PS+ backlog already.
A few months down the road, they can negotiate for cross-buy or bundling. e.g., on Vita, you get to keep the PS3 and Vita version once you bought either one. That's what I meant by pushing the issues to the publishers.
Personally, I think the bigger challenge is they should really show progress relatively quickly after the event.
So did PS2 the DS and Wii, which are some of the most successfull consoles. PS3 had also a mandatory HDD which brought up the price and skewered any comparison with the cheapest available XBox.
For me 100$ are worth it, since I can easily then skip rebuying the games I already possess.
Also I dont know why you dont get it, im fine with a BC-less SKU or an addon via PCIe. So I dont know why you continue to whine about it - I hate repeating myself 2 times.
So who do you tink pays for the servers for BC in the end, even if you never use them? Why not give the option to those who want it at a price and make it cheaper for the rest instead of forcing everyone to pay for youtube and serverfarms
If I know PS3 peripherials wont transfer over to PS4, I know PS3 games dont run on PS4 then there are only 2 conclusions:
I dont easily buy PS3 stuff anymore, or I wont get PS4 until very late.
From Sony's perspective, designing and building an sku that might not sell much and that they will eol after 2 years might not be worth the effort. They shelled out $380m for gaikai that's probably where any bc is going to come from, I don't see the point in having 2 solutions for a limited issue.
That is a good point, but this is consoles. The distribution deals, the conditions under which you develop and release your games constantly change. If it was a Windows application the developer would most likely have sold it directly to the customer and would have an easy way to charge for a upgrade or release an updated version. And the required work most likely be very light compared to a brand new console.
PSN games range from rubberduck to Red Dead Redemption, the effort to port games differs by a large margin. And some of them can be sold as a FULL HD remix in 4-6 years
PS+ is going to be interesting if it doesn't transfer to a PS4 service running side by side with the PS3/Vita. If i shutdown my PS+ i can still play my games afaik, however i can not redownload them, but can i make a backup and reactivate them.. questions questions.
1. They're not successful because of BC. Sure didn't help PS3 a whole lot.
2. Mandatory HDD didn't bring up the price too much for the PS3. A host of other components brought it sky high.
3. $100 may be worth it for you. Is it worth it for Sony to design around, test, and bring it to market? Probably not.
If someone is really going to throw such a tantrum about having BC, a good working PS3s will very likely be avaliable at ~150 USD when the PS4 launches. Most certainly second hand ones. It's not as if they will suddenly cut all support from the PS3 (or for the matter for 360 too).
Sony is rolling out Gaikai to solve BC problems. As others have said, it's not a good idea to roll out 2 solutions for a relatively minor issue that probably only a few people will rip their hair out for.
Besides, Gaikai is, effectively, a multi-generation BC solution. One can totally imagine that if and when there is a PS5 that PS4 titles will most certainly be provided though Gaikai.
It is plausible that in 3 years time BC issues are completely obsolete due to this service working.
Making demands and complaining about stuff only gets constructive when they're actually rooted in reality.
Any executive pushing to design another complete SKU to work with PS/PS2/PS3 titles, testing it, and marketing it for a relative minority WHILE rolling out Gaikai service would probably be thrown out of the room within minutes.
Who do you think pays for your cloud services?
The costs may not be upfront but they'll get to you somehow, even though it may not require you to do anything. The information you generate by "being alive" pays for cloud services to a certain degree.
Probably because
1. It's cheaper for them to do this way in the long run.
2. It's cheaper for you to do it this way in the long run.
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I didn't throw a tantrum personally but instead solved the issue a different way, I mostly stopped buying XBLive games. I'll use Pinball Arcade as the example. It a base game on which you can buy up to 10 (and still growing) table packs. It's not a game that gets old, it's one I may play tomorrow, next year and 10 years from now as it emulates classic pinball games from when I was a kid so to me it's timeless. I bought it on XBLive and one table pack, then it occurred to me that backwards compatibility is not a guarantee. So I said screw it, I'm not buying throw away digital content anymore and basically abandoned XBLive. Instead I'll get Pinball Arcade later on PC when it comes out along with every table pack since I know I'll be able to play it on my pc, laptop, tablet and other hardware for the foreseeable future.
I understand some people don't care about that sort of thing. They will spend a chunk of cash say on Pinball Arcade and buy all the table packs and be totally ok when none of it works on their next hardware. Perhaps they are the type that keeps a closet full of old hardware around that they can pull out to play a particular game when them feel the need. I'm just not cool with that at all so I adapted, I'm not buying throw away digital content anymore. If it's one off stuff they perhaps, but timeless stuff like Pinball Arcade I will never buy on a service that makes me throw it all away every few years.
I'll wait and see what Durango does for forward compatibility. I don't know if they will go with any backward compatibility, but if forward compatibility is assured then I'll feel better about buying digital content on it. If not then oh well, the other forward compatible gaming platform (Windows 8) will be the one that continues to get my money.
Hmm... I think I should clarify because the argument got a bit muddy after a few posts.
What I'm arguing against is slapping on a PS3(and a PS2, in some people argument) onto the PS4 to solve BC issues (and most likely have a whole host of issues in tons of stuff not working properly) when they're rolling out a service like Gaikai.
I would definitely argue that BC is a good value and by all means Sony and Microsoft should look into it and try to provide it if it doesn't break their bank nor our bank.
However, with a service like Gaikai (and provided that it works properly), the argument becomes much, much weaker.
Digital games are probably a "mess" now. Today, I get Zen Pinball on both Vita and PS3 for the price of one. Note that this is not b/c but cross-buy (Buy 1 get 1 free). Zen Pinball for PS4 is probably going to cost me a little extra since it's yet another platform, unless Sony pull another cross-buy deal.
I buy digital games these days because of Vita and cross-play. When I lost my PSP and the first Vita, I lost the games in the devices and carrying cases as well. Now at least my games are safe on PSN.
If they centralize all digital games to Gaikai, it will be much cleaner. The games will either be downloaded progressively, or streamed to multiple platforms.
It is unclear how Sony will tweak PS+ when Gaikai is ready.
I buy digital games these days because of Vita and cross-play. When I lost my PSP and the first Vita, I lost the games in the devices and carrying cases as well. Now at least my games are safe on PSN.
If they centralize all digital games to Gaikai, it will be much cleaner. The games will either be downloaded progressively, or streamed to multiple platforms.
It is unclear how Sony will tweak PS+ when Gaikai is ready.
Is a ps3 emulator running on ps4 out of question even in the future?
I know that cell was complex but they have to develop a good emulator if they plan to use gaikai for ps3 games and maybe with time and optimization...
Ps1 and ps2 games emulation shouldn't be a problem right? I hope they will be supported with 1080p res.
I know that cell was complex but they have to develop a good emulator if they plan to use gaikai for ps3 games and maybe with time and optimization...
Ps1 and ps2 games emulation shouldn't be a problem right? I hope they will be supported with 1080p res.
I think the solution is in the hand of developers. Sony and Devs need to work together to carry over PSN stuff to PS4. Devs need to port their games to PS4 and Sony need to make it easy as well as advertise that you can buy now and play on PS3 and gets the PS4 version when PS4 launch. This is especially needed for new games launching on PSN (especially PSN only games) since the Sony PS4 non BC announcement.
I normally get $50 credit per week for PSN. I stop that since my anticipation about the meeting. My 750GB hdd is nearly full anyway. I think I got around $3-4 in my wallet at the moment. At this point I won't even touching some of the DLC I was planning to buy. Especially some of the novelty DLC like DOA5 costumes.
Non BC hardware is very distruptive.
At this point I need to get the PS3 superslim as My PS3 is getting old. I was hoping to skip that and just get PS4. I need my fighting games, PS3 has all I need at the moment.
We're talking about software BC at the moment but for hardware BC I also heard that DS3 won't work with PS4. I wonder what other peripheral won't work. PS Eye probably won't work because PS4 is getting a new one. Are we getting new Move controller too ? Because I got two of those and I kind like Move games. Fighting sticks and Wheels, I wonder what the support on those will be. I hope they work as they are quite expensive.
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