Sony VR Headset/Project Morpheus/PlayStation VR

[Deleted member 13524]

Did Sony say they're developing PSVR2?

Or is there even reason to believe they're developing it?

Besides the fact that they've been registering patents for hand tracking in VR, fighting motion sickness in VR, wireless VR headsets, they just did a big marketing push for PSVR titles and bragged about how they already hit 4.2 million users?

Nope, besides that there's no reason to believe they're developing a PSVR follow-up. They in fact did not say they're develping PSVR2.

Should they have Osbourned the current PSVR by formally announcing they're developing an improved version that is probably 1 year away (at least)?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

On EG today...

 

[wco81]

Besides the fact that they've been registering patents for hand tracking in VR, fighting motion sickness in VR, wireless VR headsets, they just did a big marketing push for PSVR titles and bragged about how they already hit 4.2 million users?

Nope, besides that there's no reason to believe they're developing a PSVR follow-up. They in fact did not say they're develping PSVR2.

Should they have Osbourned the current PSVR by formally announcing they're developing an improved version that is probably 1 year away (at least)?

I didn't realize that they just recently gave the 4.2 million figure.

Here is that figure in context. It's got a comparable attach rate to the SegaCD and 32X, not exactly ringing indicators of success.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/03/putting-sonys-4-2-million-psvr-sales-in-context/

 

[cheapchips]

4.2m is really good compared to PC HMDs. I don't think the comparison to megaCD holds up either. Digital distribution makes launching a game much more viable to an install base of that size.

 

[Picao84]

I didn't realize that they just recently gave the 4.2 million figure.

Here is that figure in context. It's got a comparable attach rate to the SegaCD and 32X, not exactly ringing indicators of success.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/03/putting-sonys-4-2-million-psvr-sales-in-context/

Sega CD and 32X only brought improved graphics, not a new way to play games in anyway. It's comparing apples to oranges really.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Here is that figure in context. It's got a comparable attach rate to the SegaCD and 32X, not exactly ringing indicators of success.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/03/putting-sonys-4-2-million-psvr-sales-in-context/

Yeah I'm familiar with Kyle Orland's dumb rhetoric hitpieces.

First of all, calling 32X's 2.2% attach rate as comparable to PSVR's 4.4% is a bit of a stretch.
Second, selling 4.4% of a 100 Million userbase is a little bit different than selling 2.2% of a 30 Million one. Even the SegaCD with 7% only sold 2 million units.
Third, devs making games for the 32X weren't making code that was easily portable to other platforms, like 3rd-party PSVR devs porting games to Steam and Oculus.
Fourth, were private behemoths spending billions of dollars on smallish startups just to get their hands on the market potential coming from 32X/SegaCD's features? The level of investment, research and attention that VR is getting is worlds apart from Sega Genesis' upgrades.
Fifth, the 32X and SegaCD were presented by Sega as loss-leaders because they just weren't selling the games for those. Did Sony claim they're not making money out of PSVR software?

Lastly, the fact that you could only manage to (hardly) counter one of the several points I presented in my previous post just strengthens its overall argument.
Big marketing push, many game announcements from just a couple of days ago and several patent applications. What about those?

 

[wco81]

So single digit attach rate.

Is 4.2 million 8nstalled base enough to get development support? Probably some.

But it would be a poor number for a c9nsole platform, which it almost is.

Jury is still out on AR and VR.

 

[Picao84]

So single digit attach rate.

Is 4.2 million 8nstalled base enough to get development support? Probably some.

You talk like Skyrim VR, Borderlands 2 VR, Doom VFR, NMS VR, RE7, Beat Saber, Astrobot, Creed, Everybody's Golf VR, Dirt Rally VR, Farpoint, Firewall Zero Hour, Wipeout, Dreams with VR and many other quality titles do not exist. Wake up, we are in 2019, not 2016 anymore.

The number of games released for the PSVR has exceeded the number released for Sega CD (159 games), despite being more complex to develop, while most games released for Sega CD were a rehash of Mega Drive games, just with better sound (I know, I have one and 20+ games for it). How about that for Development Support?

I slightly agree with you that VR still has a way to go, but it's not even near the bad place you make it to be. It's in a good, sustainable, path to be more mainstream.

You hadn't posted here in a while, is it a coincidence that it was shortly after the State of Play broadcast? Are you one of the salty flat gamers angry with the fact that PSVR was front and center on it?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But it would be a poor number for a c9nsole platform, which it almost is.

Almost, but not. It's an expensive peripheral, like Move and Kinect. As a consumer item, its success should only be measured on if devs continue to make software for it and if it thus continues to grow. As long as devs can make money, it'll get games, and as long as it gets games and is viable, people have shown themselves willing to buy into it. As a business, its value should only be measured as how much ROI it generates, so cash mainly with perhaps some halo marketing effect.

PSVR isn't a runaway success by any stretch, but it's kept going and growing, which, if VR was going to crash and burn, it would have done so already. It seems very limited to a slow-growth pattern simply because people need to try it before they buy it, so you're looking at organic word of mouth. Few TV commercials are going to get people to drop $300 on an unknown, especially f they know there's a risk of it making them sick!

 

[wco81]

If Sony decides to continue to invest, more power to them.

Maybe they’ll reach a combination of price, performance that reaches a tipping point and makes tens of millions purchase.

Not sure what that tipping point will be. Great that there are VR advocates. But people didn’t want to even put on 3D glasses for their TVs so HMDs have an uphill battle.

 

[Picao84]

Not sure what that tipping point will be. Great that there are VR advocates. But people didn’t want to even put on 3D glasses for their TVs so HMDs have an uphill battle.

Honestly, did you ever use PSVR or any non mobile VR headset? Comparing 3D glasses to VR is like comparing Radio with TV/Cinema. VR does not just makes you see the image in fake 3D. The image is all around you, you are not watching something on a screen, you are inside that "something"! You are not passively watching something, you are physically doing things inside that "something". Comparing 3D glasses with VR is laughable really. The "rewards" of putting on a VR headset hugely outweight putting 3D glasses on.

We are now seeing almost every day on r/PSVR people who used to act like you or worse, getting one and posting "oh, I was so wrong". That only makes me think you are just making up excuses for yourself, to not get one

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If Sony decides to continue to invest, more power to them.

Maybe they’ll reach a combination of price, performance that reaches a tipping point and makes tens of millions purchase.

Why does it need tens of millions? If the platform makes Sony money and a good ROI even with only a few million units, why abandon it? As I understand it, attach ratio for VR is very high as VR content is highly valuable to users, so the profit per unit could be maybe be notably more than for a console. Add in that it's an emerging tech in which Sony are currently the world leaders, why would they bail to let someone else take over? What's the business sense in giving up in a market they lead which makes them money that is almost certainly a growth industry even if a slow one?

 

[Karamazov]

i have more than 30 PSVR games/experiences, not counting free stuff and demos.

 

[PSman1700]

If Sony decides to continue to invest, more power to them.

Why would they not? VR isn't going anywhere, yes PSVR in its current PS4-implementation isn't anywhere near your oculus-pc experiences, but PS5 will have much more powerful hardware to aid next-gen VR. Sony is ramping up PSVR for a reason, its not just a gimmick anymore, it will be even bigger with the arrival of PS5.

 

[wco81]

You are not passively watching something, you are physically doing things inside that "something". Comparing 3D glasses with VR is laughable really. The "rewards" of putting on a VR headset hugely outweight putting 3D glasses on.

Because most people may not like putting something which covers up their vision, including gamers.

There are AR and VR products out now but none of them are mass market products yet.

 

[orangpelupa]

i have more than 30 PSVR games/experiences, not counting free stuff and demos.

VR spending is crazy high. Higher than PS4. at least it was like that for me.

on PS4, i usually only buy games, at launch, that i really like (uncharted series, etc), or have tried the demo (destiny). But PSVR? expensive and shallow indie game? BOUGHT AT LAUNCH. New title from new dev with no known historical quality? HERES MY MONEY.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Sony is ramping up PSVR for a reason, its not just a gimmick anymore, it will be even bigger with the arrival of PS5.

To be fair, we don't know that. It could be that people who have had their experience with PSVR feel there's no need to try a future version, like Kinect. Kinect 1, super cool, everybody played it, lost interest come Kinect 2. VR, what's that all about, hey this is pretty cool, okay, I'm done now. But, there's no actual evidence of that so it'd require a pessimistic outlook to choose future business plans based on a worst case scenario.

 

[goonergaz]

To be fair, we don't know that. It could be that people who have had their experience with PSVR feel there's no need to try a future version, like Kinect. Kinect 1, super cool, everybody played it, lost interest come Kinect 2. VR, what's that all about, hey this is pretty cool, okay, I'm done now. But, there's no actual evidence of that so it'd require a pessimistic outlook to choose future business plans based on a worst case scenario.

The potential difference here is a real tangible improvement (ie no wires!).

Whilst PSVR isn’t overly difficult to set up there is a barrier which hopefully will be gone with v2...it’d be much easier to ‘sell’.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

There are loads of significant improvements. However, the 'virgin experience' has been and gone. Kinect was about bouncing in front of a TV. Kinect 2 was way better, but having experienced bouncing-around-in-front-of-the-TV already, consumers didn't feel the need to revisit that experience in higher quality. Everyone who's point on a PSVR and felt in a new world has now had that revelation. Whether they want to experience the same thing but better, or whether they feel satisfied now, is unknown. Personally I think VR can improve significantly and become far more immersive than PSVR, but that doesn't mean consumers are willing to buy into it. What may happen is the a percentage of the existing PSVR users want PSVR2, and a percentage have had their VR itch scratched and aren't interested in a sequel, but there'll be millions more VR virgins for whom PSVR isn't right but for whom PSVR2 will be a great experience and they'll be a new market.

 

[milk]

To be fair, we don't know that. It could be that people who have had their experience with PSVR feel there's no need to try a future version, like Kinect. Kinect 1, super cool, everybody played it, lost interest come Kinect 2. VR, what's that all about, hey this is pretty cool, okay, I'm done now. But, there's no actual evidence of that so it'd require a pessimistic outlook to choose future business plans based on a worst case scenario.

That's what market research is for.
I think the safe strategy is releasing ps5 with PSVR1 compatibility, and with an eye on what they'll probably need for PSVR2 compatible as well fore future proofing. Then, data on number of users still using PSVR1 on PS5 and buying games there might certainly help decide if interest dropped or still exists.
I don't see them launching a PSVR2 day one alongside PS5. A console is already headache enough. They sure don't need that extra complexity.