New Sony HDTVs

[London Geezer]

The LE40M91B can't be in the same ballpark with Brightside display - from what I've read, the latter is using very dense LED configuration, probably thousands of diodes, hence incredible brightneass figures and much higher contrast ratio.

... and enough heat to boil a kettle!

But I'm assuming that this local dimming in the M91B is a given, simply because it would rather be silly not to use it when it's one of the assumed benefits coming with LED backlight units and it's been talked about for the last 5 years.

I stopped making assumptions a looong time ago.

That said, 10:000 dynamic contrast is impressive, if not by sheer number then simply because it presumably varies across different areas of the screen, not by dimming or brightening up the entire picture as happens with CCFL backlights. Of course I'd like to see some VESA figures (Brightside for example is citing 1:25 000).

10000:1 Dynamic CR is not impressive at all. 10000:1 REAL CR would be impressive, and should be the one obtained with this kind of tech. That's why it sounds strange, with a LED array Brightside-style, there would be no need for Samsung's stupid Dynamic contrast feature which most people with good eyes leave OFF anyway.

Another interesting possibility provided by LEDs is blinking backlight which it helps reduce motion blur that arises because of non-zero pixel response times. In short, the backlight goes on at the end of pixel change cycle (or at the monitor refresh rate), which is similar to how CRT pixels operate...

Absolutley. LED backlight can do lots of things that will make old style LCD look crap by comparison, when done right. I'm just not sure Samsung are doing it right that's all, but it would be nice to be proved wrong!

 

[DmitryKo]

.10000:1 Dynamic CR is not impressive at all. 10000:1 REAL CR would be impressive

I'm pretty confident the real consrast is higher than their current 1:700, for the reasons explained above.

with a LED array Brightside-style, there would be no need for Samsung's stupid Dynamic contrast feature

Samsung might have been reluctant to explain why 1000:1 "real" contrast is suddenly better than 5000:1 "dynamic" one which they touted for the last year.

 

[London Geezer]

I'm pretty confident the real consrast is higher than their current 1:700, for the reasons explained above.

Absolutely, it should be much higher than that. Seriously.

Samsung might have been reluctant to explain why 1000:1 "real" contrast is suddenly better than 5000:1 "dynamic" one which they touted for the last year.

See that's what you get after years of lies, now they can't keep up with the lies they've been spreading for so long. Even 2000:1 or 3000:1 real CR would be a god-given, but for PR reasons they can't use that figure now because they've been shoving stupid figures like 6000:1 or 10000:1 Dynamic CR for so long. So what do they do? They can just stick a 20000000:1 Dynamic CR on top of the new sets and they're off!! Perfect!

Meh... I'm sure these sets are great, but i just don't like Samsung as a company, and this is after i bought 2 of their HDTVs. I mean, every company does it, every company tries to shove a little PR figures here and there, but Samsung just have no shame whatsoever, marketing sets with silly 5000:1 CR, when tests come out saying they actually have 600:1 CR, when they're lucky! There's a limit to everything!!

 

[pascal]

I dont trust Samsung contrast numbers.

I have LCDs monitors from Samsung and Sony with almost equal official contrast, but the Samsungs LCDs are like washed colors with gray black for me. The Sony LCD monitor is much better. The funny is so many (hundreds) people in newegg reviewed the Samsung as a great monitor, which makes me think if I can trust user reviews.

For me this contrast problem is terrible because I am a Trinitron addict person.

Look at this not so old Display Technology Shoot-Out by Dr. Raymond Soneira: http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1734380,00.asp

We start off the comparison with an item that doesn't get all the attention it deserves: the display's ability to produce black. This capability of suppressing light output turns out to be a major challenge for all of the display technologies. It's important because a poor black-level lifts the bottom end of the display's intensity-scale and introduces errors in both intensity and color throughout the entire lower end of the scale, not just at the very bottom. All displays produce some light in the form of a very dark-gray when asked to produce a black. This background light is added to all of the colors and intensities that the display is asked to produce. This washes out the dark grays and also the dark colors. For example, dark reds will instead appear as shades of pink. What's more, if the display isn't properly adjusted, the dark background glow will have a color tint instead of appearing neutral gray, and this will add a color cast to the entire lower end of the intensity scale—particularly noticeable in dark images.

 

[DmitryKo]

Sxrd

Well, I've just looked at Sony KDS-55A2000 in the store, and it was a pleasant surprise

Although I've seen rear projection units before and they failed to impress, on this particular one both brightness and contrast was matching nearby Sony LCD-TVs and plasmas but the colors/blacks were vivid and not as washed out. And even though the viewing angles are not as good, they are clearly an improvement from the previous generation 3LCD models, so looking straight from 3-4 meters gives exceptionally good picture. I'd take it over similarily priced KDL-40V2500, anytime, just for the screen size!

Now let's see if these new LED backlights will be able to match these BrightSide displays and SXRD in terms of contrast...

 

[London Geezer]

Well, I've just looked at Sony KDS-55A2000 in the store, and it was a pleasant surprise

Although I've seen rear projection units before and they failed to impress, on this particular one both brightness and contrast was matching nearby Sony LCD-TVs and plasmas but the colors/blacks were vivid and not as washed out. And even though the viewing angles are not as good, they are clearly an improvement from the previous generation 3LCD models, so looking straight from 3-4 meters gives exceptionally good picture. I'd take it over similarily priced KDL-40V2500, anytime, just for the screen size!

Now let's see if these new LED backlights will be able to match these BrightSide displays and SXRD in terms of contrast...

Nice! Is the A-series an SXRD rear projection TV? I'm the Sony HDTV expert around here an even I have lost track of all the different series...

SXRD is just amazing if we look at Sony's projectors. If it keeps the same quality, then these should be some of the best looking TVs around. Shame i can't get over the silly viewing angles...


EDIT: yep it's the SXRD rear projection... CNET definitely loved it!

 

[DmitryKo]

Yes, it's a SXRD unit. The viewing angles sure could use further improvement, but as of now they're already adequate for a home theatre use (provided that you keep recommended viewing distance and angle). What's more, there are no visible pixel borders even up close, and the owners say the black level is way better than what's currently found in LCD-TVs! http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=400395

 

[London Geezer]

Yes, it's a SXRD unit. The viewing angles sure could use further improvement, but as of now they're already adequate for a home theatre use (provided that you keep recommended viewing distance and angle). What's more, there are no visible pixel borders even up close, and the owners say the black level is way better than what's currently found in LCD-TVs! http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=400395

Yeah, well one of the reviews i found measured the contrast ratio at about 8000:1 REAL CR. That's pretty scary when most LCDs struggle to get past 800:1...

 

[DmitryKo]

Today I saw 55A2000 at another store, and I admit the black level is absolutely amazing! I first thought the set is turned off when I approached it, but then an image started to appear and it was pretty stunning to see full-bright BRAVIA logo materialising in the center all over the same black background! I think I'm sold

BTW, SonyStyle USA offers a discount over this weekend, so 50A2000 can be had for $1900, and 55A2000 for $2200 ($500 off)... to pity, Russian (and UK) prices are much higher than that.

PS. BTW, it looks like A2000 will be replaced by A2500 as well, at least in Japan...
http://www.ecat.sony.co.jp/bravia/products/series.cfm?series=a2500
http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...-unveils-new-bravia-lcd-lcos-hdtvs-japan.html

 

[pascal]

Just got the Bravia KLV-32S200

Connected it to a DVD player with a simple composite cable and the first impressions are very good.
Changed the default bright mode to normal mode and I will do other adjustments with time.

 

[London Geezer]

Amazing review of the W2000 set (V2500 in the US)

LCD already reigns supreme over small screen sizes but we've been unconvinced that the technology can outperform plasma in the large screen stakes…until now, that is.

Usually, plasmas display deeper black levels, creating enhanced contrast with colours that appear more natural. But, even compared to our class-leading Pioneer PDP-427XD plasma, Sony's KDL-40W2000 comes out on top.

And they give it a 9.3 "Spectacular" rating, which by cnet standards is a huge score.
Best thing about the review is that cnet have always been absolutely neutral in their reviews.


It now shares the score with the Pioneer 5000EX plasma.. Obviously the W2000 is on top as it's more than 3 times cheaper than the Pioneer...

 

[slider]

Sounds near flaw-less, especially the price. The only thing that slightly nags is only 2 HDMI ports. Future-proofing and all that jazz.

 

[London Geezer]

Sounds near flaw-less, especially the price. The only thing that slightly nags is only 2 HDMI ports. Future-proofing and all that jazz.

Heh well only a very few sets have 3 HDMI ports here in the UK, in fact i think only the new Toshiba sets do.
But hey, with a review like that, and a price like that, a nice HDMI switch can solve everything. I can only imagine what LCDs will be like a year from now, seeing the progress in the last year or so.

 

[slider]

Oh don't get me wrong. I'm gonna start putting the pennies away as of now. It sounds an excellent package.

BTW, I think it is the Toshiba WLT68(?) series. I did some research for my parents a while on it and it got (only) decent reviews. Around 8/10 on cnet UK I think but the price was a little heftier.

 

[London Geezer]

Oh don't get me wrong. I'm gonna start putting the pennies away as of now. It sounds an excellent package.

BTW, I think it is the Toshiba WLT68(?) series. I did some research for my parents a while on it and it got (only) decent reviews. Around 8/10 on cnet UK I think but the price was a little heftier.

Yeah, to be honest i'm not rushing. The Sony seems to have the LCD tech in their hands at the moment, the Bravia's really are amazing sets at low-ish price, and now it's all about price drops (Jan and Feb), and better sets coming.

So, depending on how my finances go, by the time i actually do get off my ass and buy one, i'll get a W2000 for a lot less than it is now, or a new set with even better image quality.

 

[Ty]

The Sharp 92's should be quite good too. Using Micronas' technology.

 

[pascal]

All I can say for now is that Bravia´s blacks are much deeper than my X-Black monitor

 

[London Geezer]

All I can say for now is that Bravia´s blacks are much deeper than my X-Black monitor

Really? wow...

 

[pascal]

Really. I will try to do some calibration and tests this weekend :smile:

 

[slider]

All I can say for now is that Bravia´s blacks are much deeper than my X-Black monitor

Wow indeed. A whole lot of goodness going on with these LCDs at the mo. Plus the Bravia Engine has been universally praised I think.