MS counts third party licensing revenue differently from Nintendo (100% of the selling price vs Nintendo's 30% cut), hence the difference (in addition to subscription revenue)
Sony PS6, Microsoft neXt Series - 10th gen console speculation [2020]
- Thread starter Megadrive1988
- Start date
Do you mean that Microsoft generates more revenue per console or that Xbox console revenue is higher than Playstation revenue?
They don't now that compute and bandwidth are primarily the limiting factors in processing present day workloads.
I literally mean "inherently" like the dictionary definition. And you go on to argue exactly my point. What the fuck?
Nobody was arguing that windows is inherently bloated, they are arguing that windows is bloated because that’s how Microsoft made it. Which you seemingly agree with so idk why you disagreed with the original commentator.
didn't ps3 also have an issue with speed at which the rambus ram could be accessed by the gpu ?
PS3 would have been a much better system with a 256/512 ram set up
So proportionally next to none? They have stayed largely cross-gen all through PS5 apart from, as function notes, a couple of showcase titles?
I'm seeing crossed lines here. You're arguing Windows is bloated. @function is arguing it doesn't need to be for a streamlined gaming OS, that the bloat isn't intrinsic and inescapable with the OS.
I think the main problem is that the actual output of games from Sony has declined massively. A few were PS5-only (Demon Souls? Spiderman games? R&C) but it's just be so FEW. Nothing actually new from Naughty Dog. One game from Guerilla. One from Santa Monica. It's been slow AF so of course they'd keep cross platform, and release the same games as remakes over and over again. I just would have expected more games so that they eventually could have moved on from cross platform. Only Insomniac has been able to release a few games, and good ones at that.
Unfortunately a lot was lost on cancelled GaaS games. Such a waste
Between Games taking longer to create, cancelled GAAS, games and COVID problem for motion capture it was not the best generation for games.
Without TLOU Online, ND can probably do two new games per gen.
Thanks @Shifty Geezer, yes that is what I'm saying. For consoles from the first Xbox onwards, the OS has had a very modest performance and memory cost which compares roughly equally, or at times better, to Sony's offerings.*
On the PC side things are different though, where typical Windows gamers face OS bloat that doesn't help games, and often doesn't help Windows users, but has been decided at a high level to force on Windows users because it might help MS with their cornucopia of sometimes conflicting corporate goals.
But the idea that just because PC Windows is by default and by design bloated, that it means that Xbox consoles using a version of the Windows kernel are is completely wrong.
* (The level of hardware abstraction that developers have to manage is a different issue, and perhaps one that offers some slight advantages for Playstation, at the cost of compatibility and opportunities for system level BC enhancements later on).
There was one specific case where a transfer was really very limited, but I can't remember which one it was. I'm sure it didn't help make optimal use of the memory easier.
I expect so, but Sony was already getting murdered by the high manufacturing costs of the console. RRoD aside (lol) the 360 is one of the best examples of a combining a performance, cutting edge features and a competitive BOM from the start. Other examples would be the Dreamcast (yes, really) and the PS4.
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Dominik D
Regular
True. FWIW Windows is extremely modular. What is or isn't in a given SKU is driven by market analysis and/or whims of managers. Windows has very strict layering structure where you can only depend on components from lower layers (unless there's a technical reason you need to break this requirement - but that's extremely rare and only applies to low level components). By removing something user-facing (like, say, all the AI crap; or AD and network drive support) you can potentially prune a lot of components that ship with a desktop OS. The more you don't need, the leaner your OS becomes, up to the point where you're essentially running what was called MinWin in the old days (kernel + absolute necessities to call it a functional OS). There are also components that exist in case you put something old-school into your modern device (disk drive for instance) that you could remove at the cost of shrinking the hardware compatibility (which is something MS didn't want to do for a very long time but arguably did with TPM requirement).
As we look into the future of the next generation of consoles, I thought it would be interesting to get some perspectives on what aspects of the current generation people think were successfully utilized, and those that weren't.
For example, would you guys say that the PS5's ~5GB/s SSD was adequately utilized VS the Series console's ~2.5GB/s drive? How about Microsoft's DX12 hardware features such as Sampler Feedback Streaming and even DXR.. or how about Quick Resume?
I'd argue Sony's use of their SSD has been fairly well received, but I'm not sure if PS6 warrants any improvement to be honest. I'd rather them focus on higher storage capacity before increasing bandwidth at this point. 2TB should be the standard for a next gen console in 2027+ I feel. I think it would be better suited to divert more money towards other components if possible.
As for Xbox Series' use of their hardware features, I'm left disappointed. While some of the games utilize MS' hardware features, generally I think the implementations have been a bit weak, and most devs are rolling with their own custom solutions for everything. They've failed to release their own upscaling solution and simply fell back on AMD's FSR.. which is fine, but MS had done a lot of hyping of supposed usefulness of many of their features, and as many of us have come to understand, they're just not panning out in real world use scenarios. I think MS had the right balance of SSD and hardware power, but ultimately Sony being in the dominant market position was the primary focus for developers and thus fell by the wayside.
We know the next gen consoles will likely be chocked full of AI features, and it will be interesting to see how hard each will go as far as that goes. But considering how things turned out this gen with regards to hype VS product.. I think you can expect people to be a lot more skeptical when it comes to supposed performance and improvement claims from these companies. Sony is on the right track with PSSR, and can show visible proof of that aspect.. but what is MS going to do? Forego their own solution and just roll with FSR4+? Likely.. but should be interested none the less.
What hardware features would you guys like to see implemented into these consoles?
For example, would you guys say that the PS5's ~5GB/s SSD was adequately utilized VS the Series console's ~2.5GB/s drive? How about Microsoft's DX12 hardware features such as Sampler Feedback Streaming and even DXR.. or how about Quick Resume?
I'd argue Sony's use of their SSD has been fairly well received, but I'm not sure if PS6 warrants any improvement to be honest. I'd rather them focus on higher storage capacity before increasing bandwidth at this point. 2TB should be the standard for a next gen console in 2027+ I feel. I think it would be better suited to divert more money towards other components if possible.
As for Xbox Series' use of their hardware features, I'm left disappointed. While some of the games utilize MS' hardware features, generally I think the implementations have been a bit weak, and most devs are rolling with their own custom solutions for everything. They've failed to release their own upscaling solution and simply fell back on AMD's FSR.. which is fine, but MS had done a lot of hyping of supposed usefulness of many of their features, and as many of us have come to understand, they're just not panning out in real world use scenarios. I think MS had the right balance of SSD and hardware power, but ultimately Sony being in the dominant market position was the primary focus for developers and thus fell by the wayside.
We know the next gen consoles will likely be chocked full of AI features, and it will be interesting to see how hard each will go as far as that goes. But considering how things turned out this gen with regards to hype VS product.. I think you can expect people to be a lot more skeptical when it comes to supposed performance and improvement claims from these companies. Sony is on the right track with PSSR, and can show visible proof of that aspect.. but what is MS going to do? Forego their own solution and just roll with FSR4+? Likely.. but should be interested none the less.
What hardware features would you guys like to see implemented into these consoles?
I'd say, as is typical, the fancy 'bespoke features' and marketing checkpoints of the consoles fell flat and if they weren't present or were dumbed down, we wouldn't even notice. There's no incredible, world changing audio from the Tempest Engine. The SSD was overkill. How much difference does DS5's haptics really make? VRS doesn't make much difference.
The only real impactful aspects were at the OS level like Quick Resume.
Grab an off-the-shelf part with zero customisation, write a lean, kick-arse OS with no pointless bloat (yes, I'm expecting AI assistants in the next consoles - "PlayStation; help me beat this boss"
), get some great upscaling tech and basically software software software, you'll have the best, most economical console for what people will actually use. The only meaningful hardware would be something outlandish like HBM.
The only real impactful aspects were at the OS level like Quick Resume.
Grab an off-the-shelf part with zero customisation, write a lean, kick-arse OS with no pointless bloat (yes, I'm expecting AI assistants in the next consoles - "PlayStation; help me beat this boss"
), get some great upscaling tech and basically software software software, you'll have the best, most economical console for what people will actually use. The only meaningful hardware would be something outlandish like HBM.I agree! However, I'd say that the Dualsense haptic features, or the Dualsense as a whole can be quite transformative for games.. but some devs simply didn't bother. Between the cool haptic sensations, the speaker and microphone, which if used effectively can add another degree of immersion into games. I think a lot of devs are missing the potential with that functionality especially. I'm thinking horror games and so many ideas come to me. The adaptive triggers I think have been used fairly well by quite a few games... but of course as these are Sony only features, it's mostly their own developers utilizing them to any great effect.I'd say, as is typical, the fancy 'bespoke features' and marketing checkpoints of the consoles fell flat and if they weren't present or were dumbed down, we wouldn't even notice. There's no incredible, world changing audio from the Tempest Engine. The SSD was overkill. How much difference does DS5's haptics really make? VRS doesn't make much difference.
The only real impactful aspects were at the OS level like Quick Resume.
Grab an off-the-shelf part with zero customisation, write a lean, kick-arse OS with no pointless bloat (yes, I'm expecting AI assistants in the next consoles - "PlayStation; help me beat this boss"
I'd like to see the next generation PS6 continue with these features. I would like a Dualsense 6 to feature a small touch display though.
Which is the main point. Doesn't matter how much potential is there if it's untapped potential. PS5 suffered from a lack of decent first party titles from Sony too where we'd expect unique features to be pushed - I'm sure all those cancelled GaaS titles would have had great first party audio and haptics if only they'd been released...
All these fancy high-visibility features get woefully underused. So IMCO learn from the past couple of decades and KISS. Move on from thinking, "just think what devs could do with this!" to, "just think what devs will (not) do with this," and give it up as a wasted idea.
There should be standardization of some of these features by now. Switch 2, and Dualsense support haptics, Microsoft's rumored new controller apparently supports haptics as well. I think haptics and a speaker/mic combo should be standardized by now. Same thing with gyro. It's basically Microsoft holding things back... and rather than remove those features due to a lack of broad implementation, we should be pushing MS to make the change so they finally can be more broadly utilized by developers as standard!
Riddlewire
Regular
If it fits your particular gaming habits, Quick Resume is a transformative feature. For me, it's been better than any other hardware feature for the past two generations.
However, it could very well be of no use whatsoever to someone with different behaviors when it comes to their gaming choices.
I only play single player games, and I only play for short sessions at any one time.
I'm currently working my way through Arkham Origins. It has multiple lengthy intro screens before you can load up your game. Quick Resume allows me to bypass all of that completely and just start playing precisely where I ended my last session.
QR really can't be considered a feature that was "successfully utilized" by any developers, since it's an automatic system feature that works on any game except for those that are specifically excluded for whatever reasons.
Other than that, the solid state drives in both machines have been used pretty well. I can't recall seeing any 1-minute loading screens in any 9th gen-only games.
However, it could very well be of no use whatsoever to someone with different behaviors when it comes to their gaming choices.
I only play single player games, and I only play for short sessions at any one time.
I'm currently working my way through Arkham Origins. It has multiple lengthy intro screens before you can load up your game. Quick Resume allows me to bypass all of that completely and just start playing precisely where I ended my last session.
QR really can't be considered a feature that was "successfully utilized" by any developers, since it's an automatic system feature that works on any game except for those that are specifically excluded for whatever reasons.
Other than that, the solid state drives in both machines have been used pretty well. I can't recall seeing any 1-minute loading screens in any 9th gen-only games.
