Johnny Awesome
Veteran
It's not going to shock me if we end up at 24 GB next gen. 32 GB might be too costly.
Sony PS6, Microsoft neXt Series - 10th gen console speculation [2020]
- Thread starter Megadrive1988
- Start date
Just like on PC, where you both have games running on integrated graphics and 3 slot GPU's. If developers receive PS6 devkits and they have to make both portable and home console versions, they will scale the game down to the weaker console, just like with Series S.
It isn't just like the Series S|X though. The gap is even larger.
Most games are playable on a Steam Deck. As long as the CPU is decent and they don't skimp too much on memory (so at least as much as a PS5) games will run without too many problems. Switch 2 is now probably the base for development, and it's not exactly fast.
Frenetic Pony
Veteran
PS6 handheld is 3nm, odd I'd have considered 2nm plausible considering it's 2027, regardless performance projection time:
Normalized to power draw increase the 7800xt to 9070xt (about the same die size so whatever) is about 22% increase in performance per watt. Going from RDNA 3.5 to 5 isn't the same, so we'll look at an extra 15% conservatively, which evens us out to a 40% performance per watt increase RDNA 3.5 to 5.
We'll assume a 17w RDNA3.5 is also equivalent to 15w Sony Handheld cause hey Sony can afford 16gb GDDR7 if they want or at least LPDDR6, hooray improved memory. 17w HX370 is roughly equivalent to a Series S, at least from looking at roughly equivalent settings/gameplay of Hellblade 2. So hooray 5.6tf, or unnormalized to 11tf cause whatever there's double now even if it doesn't double performance. That matches up with 16CU at an average of 2.4ghz, but who knows maybe it's 18CU binned from a 20CU full chip and it's like 2.1ghz.
So what's that in terms of performance? If it's GDDR7, Horizon Forbidden West max settings 1080p 30. So PS5 @1080p as a general target. Heck that's probably fine, Ratchet and Clank and Horizon and etc. If it can run at 4k native or 60 native on PS5 it can run on this handheld at @1080p native or 30fps native, considering most (all? I dunno I don't wanna go through all of them) first party games on PS5 can do this that would give 100% backwards compatibility even if the console itself isn't as powerful. And considering 3rd party has to run on Series S that guarantees 100% 3rd party compatibility.
So there's your rough target for PS6 handheld version, include an XDNA3 block for dedicated upscaling just like PS5Pro has an XDNA2 block (or something like that) for it and there we are, hardware specs sorted.
Console version will probably be, whatever, 4x that * higher clockspeed for 4k, then they'll use predictive frame generation/reprojection to upgrade 60fps to 120fps and say it's a 4k 120fps premium console.
Normalized to power draw increase the 7800xt to 9070xt (about the same die size so whatever) is about 22% increase in performance per watt. Going from RDNA 3.5 to 5 isn't the same, so we'll look at an extra 15% conservatively, which evens us out to a 40% performance per watt increase RDNA 3.5 to 5.
We'll assume a 17w RDNA3.5 is also equivalent to 15w Sony Handheld cause hey Sony can afford 16gb GDDR7 if they want or at least LPDDR6, hooray improved memory. 17w HX370 is roughly equivalent to a Series S, at least from looking at roughly equivalent settings/gameplay of Hellblade 2. So hooray 5.6tf, or unnormalized to 11tf cause whatever there's double now even if it doesn't double performance. That matches up with 16CU at an average of 2.4ghz, but who knows maybe it's 18CU binned from a 20CU full chip and it's like 2.1ghz.
So what's that in terms of performance? If it's GDDR7, Horizon Forbidden West max settings 1080p 30. So PS5 @1080p as a general target. Heck that's probably fine, Ratchet and Clank and Horizon and etc. If it can run at 4k native or 60 native on PS5 it can run on this handheld at @1080p native or 30fps native, considering most (all? I dunno I don't wanna go through all of them) first party games on PS5 can do this that would give 100% backwards compatibility even if the console itself isn't as powerful. And considering 3rd party has to run on Series S that guarantees 100% 3rd party compatibility.
So there's your rough target for PS6 handheld version, include an XDNA3 block for dedicated upscaling just like PS5Pro has an XDNA2 block (or something like that) for it and there we are, hardware specs sorted.
Console version will probably be, whatever, 4x that * higher clockspeed for 4k, then they'll use predictive frame generation/reprojection to upgrade 60fps to 120fps and say it's a 4k 120fps premium console.
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Yes even when you factor in current temporary economic headwinds it doesnt make sense to produce a PS6 with less than 32GB of memory. You're comparing it to a 4060 working on current gen requirements for a game primarily designed for the 8th gen. For a 10th gen system thats supposed to last until the cross gen period of the 11th gen, you cant base it off 8th/9th gen performance. It would be more financially sound if they invest the appropriate technologies to justify consumers buying such a system.
I guess we'll see. In like 3 years
Now that a new portable system is getting more and more likely, I can see Sony abandoning discs in favor of a system more in line with the digital cards of the Switch 2. Resellable units that you insert in the console and activate the game download.
Backwards compatibility with PS4-PS5 discs would be a problem, but a solution shouldn't be impossible.
Backwards compatibility with PS4-PS5 discs would be a problem, but a solution shouldn't be impossible.
raytracingfan
Newcomer
A move to digital-only with no physical media whatsoever for both portable and standard PS6 is far more likely, with the standard PS6 being compatible with the PS5's detachable disc drive.
Sony will not leave retail space just to Nintendo. Physical will continue to exist, maybe in a cost optimized way, like with Nintendo game cards.
Now that I think about it modern storage has solved the problem of disc based Games on a portable. The PSP was ahead of its time with the UMD format but the downsides were the bulk and the battery life drain of spinning a disc drive to load games from.
The new PS6 portable format should be a plain disc the size of PSP discs with no enclosure. This discs can contain the game or a Switch 2 like "Key Disc" that let's you download the game. Discs are much cheaper to manufacture. Won't add bulk to the Portable due to no enclosure. And won't harm battery life because the system just needs to read the Key when launching the game. The rest is pulled from storage.
The new PS6 portable format should be a plain disc the size of PSP discs with no enclosure. This discs can contain the game or a Switch 2 like "Key Disc" that let's you download the game. Discs are much cheaper to manufacture. Won't add bulk to the Portable due to no enclosure. And won't harm battery life because the system just needs to read the Key when launching the game. The rest is pulled from storage.
discs?? on a portable device? hmm
They already did it with the PSP. It was just over engineered IMO. Make the bare discs with keys just like Switch's Key Card system. They gain retail sales plus it's cheaper to manufacture compared to Switch games.
You could be onto something just not sure its technically in vogue especially on a portable device. In such a case you dont even need to a disc if its just a key, it could be a digital key otherwise discs dont provide the disk throughput needed for modern games. You need some sort of flash storage like microSD cards for additional storage
Tkumpathenurple
Veteran
I don't see it, personally. The strength of disks is that they're low cost and high capacity. Relatively, anyway.
A disk based portable is just giving itself more moving parts and, with that, more points of failure. In an age where Sony's not trying to push a new physical format, that's not a risk worth taking or a problem worth engineering around.
A disk based portable is just giving itself more moving parts and, with that, more points of failure. In an age where Sony's not trying to push a new physical format, that's not a risk worth taking or a problem worth engineering around.
Yeah, Nintendo key cards are already there. Super low cost since they don't contain game data, resellable, sharable, and as small as a memory card. That's the ideal solution.
Some people would be disappointed since they get no data on the disc, but it increases the profitability of physical games, making digital only releases harder to justify.
PS: https://www.amazon.it/Verbatim-4383...&hvtargid=pla-754725798432&psc=1&gad_source=1
100GB blue ray discs look pretty expansive. I'm sure that Sony gets them at a cheaper price, but it's probably still at around 10-15€ a disc. A 2 megabyte key card that just activates the game is probably 50 cents.
Some people would be disappointed since they get no data on the disc, but it increases the profitability of physical games, making digital only releases harder to justify.
PS: https://www.amazon.it/Verbatim-4383...&hvtargid=pla-754725798432&psc=1&gad_source=1
100GB blue ray discs look pretty expansive. I'm sure that Sony gets them at a cheaper price, but it's probably still at around 10-15€ a disc. A 2 megabyte key card that just activates the game is probably 50 cents.
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Tkumpathenurple
Veteran
Blimey, I had no idea 100GB BR's were so expensive. Wouldn't cheap SD cards maybe be the move? And just copy to internal NVME like the PS5 does? Or even flash memory in a USB-C thumb drive?
A 100GB SD card, even a slow one, is probably more costly than a 100GB blue ray disc. Not much would change.
A card that just connects to the server and downloads the game would actually lower costs for developers. Just make it shareable and resellable, or else it's a nono.
You can go cheaper and simpler than a game card with a code by using something like 'chip-and-pin', the kind of chips used in credit or gift cards. But that's a dumb solution and if the intention is to have resellable, downloadable games, it should just be integrated into the distribution system. This is creating a solution for in essence a man-made problem.
What do you mean by "distribution system"? So in your hypothetical you get a "card" that you swipe on the console and it verifies the game and starts the download?
There would be a problem with that. It necessarily has to be something that you stick inside the console, be it a home console or a portable. Or maybe I'm wrong.
Would a NFC authentication be secure enough for a system like that?
