It's also not published by Sony on non-Sony platforms. So if Death Stranding is not a first party game (funded by Sony, Published by Sony on Playstation but published by someone else everywhere else), is MLB The Show? I'm not sure I wouldn't consider The Show a first party title, but others have made the case that the Sony Publish and funded Death Stranding isn't because it isn't published by Sony on PC, so maybe The Show isn't either.
Sony PlayStation cross-platform game strategy
- Thread starter Shifty Geezer
- Start date
Rurouni
Veteran
MLB The Show is first party to Sony because it is developed by Sony. Death Stranding at best is 2nd party.
With The Show, the situation is a bit unique because it is a first party game but not an exclusive (not even a timed exclusive). Normally with 1st party it is a full exclusive and 2nd party either an exclusive (if the first party owned/have rights to the ip) or timed exclusive.
With The Show, Sony has the rights to develop the game but the ip is controlled by MLB and MLB want it available on Xbox, so the game is only first party on Sony's platform.
With The Show, the situation is a bit unique because it is a first party game but not an exclusive (not even a timed exclusive). Normally with 1st party it is a full exclusive and 2nd party either an exclusive (if the first party owned/have rights to the ip) or timed exclusive.
With The Show, Sony has the rights to develop the game but the ip is controlled by MLB and MLB want it available on Xbox, so the game is only first party on Sony's platform.
So, I don't disagree. Except, on the Xbox side you have games like Flight Simulator. Not developed by Microsoft, based on a lot of licensed IP (all those aircraft and the Reno air races and stuff), not console exclusive. I'd say it's a 1st party game but it's in a similar situation as Death Stranding, and people argue that's not first party.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
The big difference there is that while MS has to license specific real world planes, airports and possibly city landmarks, the game IP is owned by Microsoft. In the case of Death Stranding, the game IP is not owned by Sony (AFAIK), it's owned by Kojima's studio.
Things get trickier with games like Bloodborne and Demon's Souls which are owned by Sony. Those would be similar to say the original Gears of War. Entire IP developed by a non-MS studio (up until Epic decided they didn't want to make it anymore), but IP owned by MS.
Regards,
SB
Well there's no 'say' about it.
If it's made by an in-house dev team, it's first party. If it's made by an outside team for MS, it's 2nd party."First-party", "Second-party" and "Third-party" are descriptors for the type of developers.
Games get affixed with those descriptors because of their affiliation with the type of lead developer who made them. But all scenarios don't neatly fall into those categories when using those labels as they can now change with context. Is Minecraft a first-party title? Or is more context needed? Is Minecraft a first-party title on the Xbox but a third-party title on the PlayStation? Same with MLB.
Same with developers. Is Mojang a first-party or a third-party developer? Is San Diego Studios?
In the direction that Sony and MS are headed those labels may only be useful, in limited situations in the future.
Games get affixed with those descriptors because of their affiliation with the type of lead developer who made them. But all scenarios don't neatly fall into those categories when using those labels as they can now change with context. Is Minecraft a first-party title? Or is more context needed? Is Minecraft a first-party title on the Xbox but a third-party title on the PlayStation? Same with MLB.
Same with developers. Is Mojang a first-party or a third-party developer? Is San Diego Studios?
In the direction that Sony and MS are headed those labels may only be useful, in limited situations in the future.
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I agree, it's more complex because there's at least a few different criteria that all combines together:
The answers are similar with project Dragon and IOI Interactive but Xbox Game Studios instead of The Initiative. (I think that's the project codename).
- Who owns the IP
- Who's controlling the direction of the game
- Who's doing the work
- Who's paying the bill
The answers are similar with project Dragon and IOI Interactive but Xbox Game Studios instead of The Initiative. (I think that's the project codename).
So in the case of something like Death Stranding... I hear the argument that it isn't a first party game ported to PC. But Death Standing is a registered trademark of Sony Interactive Entertainment. Developed by Kojima Productions, published by Sony on Playstation, and licensed to 505 for the PC release. They own the IP, and published it, and as far as I can tell they could make more games in the series without Kojima's involvement. The PS5 Director's Cut has the Playstaion Studios logo on it, which is only only supposed to apply to first party games, even.
Source for that
It's basically the same as Flight Simulator on Xbox (except Xbox publishes that on PC as well). The platform holder owns the IP and publishes the game. Isn't that a first party game, even if it was developed by a 2nd party studio?
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
I've not seen anybody claim Death Stranding isn't first party because it's on PC, but I've seen people claim it is because Sony publish it on PlayStation. For some, that logically makes Death Stranding first party even though Sony didn't publish it on PC, when they had already published other games on Steam ported from PlayStation. Huh.. does logic just go out the window?
Publishing content does not mean the publisher owns the game or wider IP. Sony publish MLB but don't own the IP, likewise Ironman VR. Sony have published on PlayStation multi-platform titles like Bejewelled, Castle Crashers, DC Universe Online, Dead or Alive 2, and a bunch of Final Fantasy games - they don't own the IP to any of these, or even own the games. They're just publishing the game.
The publisher's role is to make the game available available (the literal meaning of publish), market it and in some cases manage the IP and copyright on behalf of the owner. The relationship between author and publishers and what level of support the publisher might provide is negotiated in advance.
Like the list of games above Sony published Death Stranding on PlayStation but I've not seen any credible source that Sony own the IP and given that Kojima lost his biggest IP (Metal Gear) to Konami, I doubt he would be would quick to sign away a new IP so willingly.
Publisher =/= owner.
And the status of the IP is often a red herring. 
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Death Stranding is a Sony Trademark
Also, check out the bottom of the 505 Games Death Stranding website
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
Like I said, filing trademarks and copyright through their legal departments is one of the many things a publisher can do on behalf of owners. It's not related to ownership of IP. Management of small creator's rights via proxy of a larger organisation is both popular and common if you don't want to setup your own legal team or retain lawyers. Kojima didn't have an engine or an office, he sure as hell didn't have a legal department!
If Sony own Death Stranding, having 505 Games publish on it Steam makes literally no sense. Sure, commission them to do the port, but why have them publish as well when Sony has had a publishing arm on Steam since 2015? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I guess I'd consider Flight Simulator an amalgamation of all three. Asobo is a 3rd party developer who has acted as a 2nd party dev for FS, which can be considered 1st party content for MS. But do we consider FS tp be 1st party content for MS? Historically speaking the PC has been the primary target for Flight Simulator and most discussion around 1st, 2nd, 3rd parties involved console games and not PC. So I guess it's a 1st party game developed by a 3rd party acting as a 2nd party when it comes to Xbox Series, but what about PC?
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Traditionally Microsoft Flight Simulator has been developed in house (Not to be confused with Flight Simulator which MS licensed back in 1981) with the latest in house studio being Aces Game Studio (formerly Microsoft Simulation Group which was formerly BAO [Bruce Artwick Organization] which was the original creator of the IP). Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 is the first version of the game that has been developed by a developer outside of Microsoft. That's because MS closed Aces Game Studio back in 2009.
So, basically up until MS FS 2020, they were all 1st party titles. The IBM PC titles (Microsoft Flight Simulator) were all developed under MS while the original Flight Simulator which appeared on other computer platforms was developed by Bruce Artwork companies. So in a way, the first MS FS might be considered a 2nd or 3rd party title that Microsoft developed by purchasing a license to produce it for the IBM PC platform.
Regards,
SB
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I just want to know when I'll get to play the good Spider-man game from Sony on PC, that's all.
I think that all big games that have maximized their sales on consoles will come to PC. And Spidey will eventually be one of them.
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
It would be a shame if it wasn't available to more people.
I think it's more of a "when" than an "if".
I should clarify it better. Do we consider games developed by MS to be 1st party games on Windows? Do we even consider 1st, 2nd, 3rd party when it comes to games on PC's? In the context of consoles it makes sense. If we do consider 1st, 2nd, 3rd party for PC games then how do we define that, by the target OS? I suppose the lines will get blurring as Game Pass continues to gain traction.
