Sony PlayStation cross-platform game strategy

[Deleted member 11852]

MLB The Show isn't published by Sony on non-Playstation platforms.

Because Sony don't own MLB and MLBAM ('MLB Advanced Media') are the publishers on non-Sony platforms. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I am not seeing where the confusion lies here. The owner of a property can publish where they like, and/or limit others publishing rights. If Sony were the owner of Death Stranding, they would publish it on Steam.

 

[iroboto]

If Sony own Death Stranding, having 505 Games publish on it Steam makes literally no sense. Sure, commission them to do the port, but why have them publish as well when Sony has had a publishing arm on Steam since 2015? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Late to this discussion, but I feel these two are tangential.
Ownership of the IP and who publishes it does not have to be the same.

For the question as to why Sony did not want to publish it and asked 505 to publish it, it may have come down to strictly just experience and available resources. Sony did not normally distribute games on PC back in 2019, so they may have at the time wanted to go hands off and see what was possible for DS, ie; they didn't have the resources to do it.

It's not so straight forward publishing on PC. The publisher will provide Q&A for the game on a variety of devices, some things need to be re-written for steam, like leaderboards, separate online server infrastructure etc. If it's a cost Sony didn't want to waste their effort on, then they won't. Someone has to pay to put in additional settings, features, infrastructure, switching to DX12, needing API support, and testing for PC and hardware vendors etc. These are all things the publisher will support the developer on, if you have DX12 issues, you don't go directly to MS. And so, in some fashion, Sony may not have had the ability to support KojiPro in this fashion in 2019.

There is a specific reason why Sony now has a new publishing arm called Playstation PC LLC. It's not just a name. It's a entire division dedicated to supporting their PC releases; they likely didn't have this with Death Stranding.

So I just wanted to put that out there as to why they went with 505 but they likely will no longer go with them. I think this is in the same vein that MS after purchasing a great deal of many companies, did not take over at Publisher for the games already inflight (not to mention publisher rights..). The work and relationships, tools, and process flows between publisher and developer were already established, so they were hands off and only are publishing their new titles.

Death Stranding IIRC is owned by Sony however on an aside.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Late to this discussion, but I feel these two are tangential.
Ownership of the IP and who publishes it does not have to be the same.

Yes. I've been saying this for a while. The owner of the IP decides who gets paid to do the port and who gets to publish. The publisher definitely takes the biggest risk in the event of commercial failure but also reaps the biggest reward in the event of commercial success.

For the question as to why Sony did not want to publish it and asked 505 to publish it, it may have come down to strictly just experience and available resources. Sony did not normally distribute games on PC back in 2019, so they may have at the time wanted to go hands off and see what was possible for DS, ie; they didn't have the resources to do it.

So, no offence, but let me destruct the lunacy of this logic. Sony stated they are releasing some PlayStation games on PC to generate a little bit of extra revenue and the biggest take goes to the publisher, so you're suggesting that Sony's logic was that they felt Death Stranding was a good candidate to make money on PC (over other PlayStation titles) but were simultaneously worried it wouldn't make any money so asked somebody else to publish? Like.. seriously man, just WTF.

Sony have published a few games on Steam since 2016. Not a lot but this isn't their first publishing rodeo and tiny one-man dev stuidos publish on Steam. What next, is somebody going to suggest perhaps Sony lost the password to their Steam publishing account? Steve in Sony's publishing arm had gone kayaking and nobody else could cover?

There is a specific reason why Sony now has a new publishing arm called Playstation PC LLC. It's not just a name. It's a entire division dedicated to supporting their PC releases; they likely didn't have this with Death Stranding.

Also can you substantiate this? I own an LLC which I use to distribute software. Literally nobody works there, not even me. It's just a legal presence.

 

[DavidGraham]

why didn't Sony publish Death Stranding on Steam?

They DID publish it on Steam through 505 games.

Honest debate requires not ignoring inconvenient facts.

Fact: Sony owns the IP and the trademark.

PC version published by 505 Games. ©2019 Sony Interactive Entertainment Inc. DEATH STRANDING is a trademark of Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC. Created and developed by KOJIMA PRODUCTIONS. All trademarks are the property of their respective owners.

 

[iroboto]

So, no offence, but let me destruct the lunacy of this logic. Sony stated they are releasing some PlayStation games on PC to generate a little bit of extra revenue and the biggest take goes to the publisher, so you're suggesting that Sony's logic was that they felt Death Stranding was a good candidate to make money on PC (over other PlayStation titles) but were simultaneously worried it wouldn't make any money so asked somebody else to publish? Like.. seriously man, just WTF.

I'm not privy to the % deal between publisher and developer etc. I wouldn't know, so whether your statement is correct or not is something I cannot answer. I'm just looking at the delivery aspect of the title. Death Stranding has an online component as well, it was developed in GNM, it got ported to DX12, and now has to be run on nvidia and AMD hardware, support DLSS etc. You have to look at each title in a case by case basis, I'm just telling you that publishers have a larger arm to play than just distribution rights. Whether KojiPro required this support to complete the work I wouldn't know, or whether Sony could have provided support in this manner in 2019, I wouldn't know. There's a lot of unknowns, but I'm pointing out a realistic case in why Sony may not have wanted to invest put forward a large investment to port the title to PC but 505 was willing to. Even if there is money to be made, Death Stranding was an absolute hit or absolute miss with some crowds. That may have played a role as well in greenlighting the budget to port, such that 505 was a safer option.

My general experience with publishers in video games industry is that they provide a lot more than software distribution and marketing. They provide QA, Testing, bug fixes, API support, online infrastructure.. etc it ultimately depends on what you need. Publishers have a role to play to ensure your game reaches the finish line and video games tend to be fairly complex entities with a lot of moving parts.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

They DID publish it on Steam...

PC version published by 505 Games

I can't see how we can say Sony published it in the same breath as saying 505 Games published it. If Sony published DS, it'd say, "published by Sony Something-or-other". Seems what happened is Sony licensed another publisher to publish it. I'm guessing Sony have IP rights, Kojima have rights to source production partners within limits, Kojima chose to publish through 505 Games on PC and Sony gave Kojima their blessings.

Ultimately, DS really isn't an indicator for Sony's PC moves. It may have happened around the same time as Sony starting to publish to PC, but it's not Sony taking an in-house console exclusive and funding its release on PC through its own publishing arm. In short, in a thread about 'first-party PS games coming to PC", DS isn't first party.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

They DID publish it on Steam through 505 games.

Your post literally quotes "PC version published by 505 Games." The money went to 505 Games, we know this from the financial report of 505's parent company.

Fact: Sony owns the IP and the trademark.

Sony definitely registered the trademark. This was certainly part of the deal as publisher on PlayStation. Once they registered that, 505 cannot also have that trademark. That's how trademarks works.

 

[iroboto]

Also can you substantiate this? I own an LLC which I use to distribute software. Literally nobody works there, not even me. It's just a legal presence.

As per the announcement. Playstation Mobile was previously cited as the publisher for God of War and Horizon Zero Dawn.

And Playstation mobile is a large division of SIE; rather big enough that they have a position titled Head of Mobile.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-04-10-sony-plots-big-playstation-push-into-mobile-gaming

A job advertisement for Head of Mobile, PlayStation Studios, SIE, reveals plans for the successful candidate to "focus on successfully adapting PlayStation's most popular franchises for mobile".

"You will be responsible for building and scaling a team of mobile leaders and will serve as the Head of this new business unit within PlayStation Studios."
...
Interestingly, Sony has also used PlayStation Mobile, Inc. to publish PlayStation games on PC, such as Horizon, Everybody's Gone to the Rapture, and the upcoming Days Gone.

but since these titles are not technically mobile titles, they are rebranding the work done by the PS Mobile division as PS PC LLC. At least this is my take on it.

 

[iroboto]

Your post literally quotes "PC version published by 505 Games." The money went to 505 Games, we know this from the financial report of 505's parent company.

FIFA and Marvel still make money licensing their IPs out. It's not like Sony makes nothing off this deal and we have no insight into the contract.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I'm not privy to the % deal between publisher and developer etc. I wouldn't know, so whether your statement is correct or not is something I cannot answer.

The publisher takes all the risk, which is why the publisher also takes the biggest cut from profits from sales. The porting studio gets paid regardless of the commercial success, whether the game sells depends on the marketing and critics which generally also falls to the publisher.

My general experience with publishers in video games industry is that they provide a lot more than software distribution and marketing. They provide QA, Testing, bug fixes, API support, online infrastructure.. etc it ultimately depends on what you need. Publishers have a role to play to ensure your game reaches the finish line and video games tend to be fairly complex entities with a lot of moving parts.

Yes, I've been saying this. The publisher's role can cover a multitude of responsibilities but I've never seen a publisher take on QA, you would expect to task that to the developer. I'm curious when you have you seen a publisher take this on instead of the developer? I cannot imagine many publishers being content to task porting to a third party but being responsible for QA to ensure it's up to scratch. That very much feels like providing a solid port to the publisher in the first place would be something need to be certified by the developer.

Sony aren't a n00b publisher, if you want to know how hard they can be have a read of the experience of That Game Company, who developed Flow, Flower and Journey, which Sony merely published. Sony do not strike me as a company willing to take on risks.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

FIFA and Marvel still make money licensing their IPs out. It's not like Sony makes nothing off this deal and we have no insight into the contract.

Because FIFA and Marvel's IP is highly valued and sought after. Death Stranding?

As per the announcement. Playstation Mobile was previously cited as the publisher for God of War and Horizon Zero Dawn. And Playstation mobile is a large division of SIE; rather big enough that they have a position titled Head of Mobile.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-04-10-sony-plots-big-playstation-push-into-mobile-gaming

PlayStation Mobile LLC was rebranded PlayStation PC LLC. So it was large before and it's still large now? Apologies if I misunderstood but I thought you were implying Sony had setup a large PC publisher when in truth they just renamed one LLC. I think removing 'mobile' from the name of your game publisher - given the perception of many mobile games being shovelware or play-to-win - is smart.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with Sony wanting to make more money then entering into an arrangement that minimised their opportunity to make money.

 

[PSman1700]

Especially as it's a cross-gen game so the scaling down to a 1.8TFLOPs GPU is guaranteed.

There are many more ps4 users clinging onto 2013 low/mid hardware than ps5 users. Scaling would be more important there than on pc i think. Though, ps5 games will run nicely on the pc platform seeing the amount of RT-capable gpu’s sold (24m just for desktop). Not that i dont believe in scaling, which will allow devs to stretch their legs regarding p5>pc ports.

Sony stated they are releasing some PlayStation games on PC

They never said ’some’. They said ’more is coming’. By the looks of Sony’s recent actions (branding their pc ’devision/logo’, aquiring a studio dedicated to pc versions, recent releases and announcements etc), its more looking like a substantional investment in the pc market.

 

[iroboto]

Yes, I've been saying this. The publisher's role can cover a multitude of responsibilities but I've never seen a publisher take on QA, you would expect to task that to the developer. I'm curious when you have you seen a publisher take this on instead of the developer? I cannot imagine many publishers being content to task porting to a third party but being responsible for QA to ensure it's up to scratch. That very much feels like providing a solid port to the publisher in the first place would be something need to be certified by the developer.

Sony aren't a n00b publisher, if you want to know how hard they can be have a read of the experience of That Game Company, who developed Flow, Flower and Journey, which Sony merely published. Sony do not strike me as a company willing to take on risks.

The publishers also have their own QA departments, the one I worked with QA my work, but only when I submit it to them for when i'm getting close to launch. You will QA internally, but the publisher will also provide a QA in a different way. And then Sony the platform will provide a different QA. All stages need to QA or you get a Hot Coffee moment. Like it's easy to slip something into the game that shouldn't be there, but it's hidden. The purpose of QA is to find these things, or if you miss a trademark, etc.

I'm well aware Sony isn't a noob publisher, but that doesn't change that Sony owns the IP and licensed it to 505. If they really don't own the IP, we'll see DS on xbox platforms in the near future. Maybe 5 years from now, I dunno. But I think it's just a special case that for whatever reason Sony went with 505 and I don't think it's because they don't own the IP, I'm fairly positive they do.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

The publisher takes all the risk, which is why the publisher also takes the biggest cut from profits from sales. The porting studio gets paid regardless of the commercial success, whether the game sells depends on the marketing and critics which generally also falls to the publisher.

IIRC Sony bankrolled Kojima Productions in a sensitive time when they got the boot from Konami, and to make a game with a bunch of Hollywood actors in their prime that certainly didn't come cheap (Norman Reedus during Walking Dead, Léa Seydoux right after 007 Spectre, Mads Mikkelsen, then I guess people like Conan O'Brien, Jordan Vogt-Roberts and Geoff Keighley did it practically for free).

Sony definitely took something out of it. It might have been console exclusivity alone, but 505 had to have done some investment at some point. Perhaps they took up the Director's Cut development?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I'm well aware Sony isn't a noob publisher, but that doesn't change that Sony owns the IP and licensed it to 505.

This is what I question. Sony's notification, which they stated, was to make money from their games on PC. The biggest cut of profits goes to the publisher so why would Sony chose a game they felt had profit potential then let somebody else grab the profits. $27m of it?

If they really don't own the IP, we'll see DS on xbox platforms in the near future. Maybe 5 years from now, I dunno. But I think it's just a special case that for whatever reason Sony went with 505 and I don't think it's because they don't own the IP, I'm fairly positive they do.

As I said in an earlier post, the arrangement for the Decima engine may well have been exclusivity in the console space. Sony aren't a charity.

 

[iroboto]

layStation Mobile LLC was rebranded PlayStation PC LLC. So it was large before and it's still large now? Apologies if I misunderstood but I thought you were implying Sony had setup a large PC publisher when in truth they just renamed one LLC. I think removing 'mobile' from the name of your game publisher - given the perception of many mobile games being shovelware or play-to-win - is smart.

I think the old Playstation Mobile was really just mobile games, and maybe the PS Vita/mobile department. I believe the 2021 mention of a 'head of mobile' was to port existing PlayStation franchises to mobile. And they pivoted or now support to porting to Steam/PC. Since Death Stranding PC released in 2020, and porting likely began much before that, maybe Sony had this strategy in mind to use Mobile, but timing and scheduling wasn't working out so they went with 505.

 

[iroboto]

This is what I question. Sony's notification, which they stated, was to make money from their games on PC. The biggest cut of profits goes to the publisher so why would Sony chose a game they felt had profit potential then let somebody else grab the profits. $27m of it?



As I said in an earlier post, the arrangement for the Decima engine may well have been exclusivity in the console space. Sony aren't a charity.

well there is an MS store =P They do infact use DX12, they skipped DX11 because it wasn't performant enough, and they skipped Vulkan... so I don't think they were purposely going out of their way to snuff MS technologies here in the PC space. We don't know how much Sony profited from it.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I think the old Playstation Mobile was really just mobile games, and maybe the PS Vita/mobile department..

Maybe, I don't know. What I do know is that they have been published games on Steam since 2015. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What difference does it make? I get wanting to lose 'mobile' from your name because of perceived shovelware/PTW connotations.

well there is an MS store =P They do infact use DX12, they skipped DX11 because it wasn't performant enough, and they skipped Vulkan... so I don't think they were purposely going out of their way to snuff MS technologies here in the PC space. We don't know how much Sony profited from it.

I don't see what this has to do with who owns Death Stranding. If Sony want to profit from selling games on PC, a platform where the biggest OS is owned by Microsoft, they need to get with the programme. Sony have a long history of releasing games on Windows. Every head of EverQuest? Published bye Sony Online Entertainment? Then EverQuest 2. Then Star Wars Galaxies? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[iroboto]

Maybe, I don't know. What I do know is that they have been published games on Steam since 2015. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What difference does it make? I get wanting to lose 'mobile' from your name because of perceived shovelware/PTW connotations.



I don't see what this has to do with who owns Death Stranding.

lol I dunno. the revenue from death stranding is 27M. We don't actually know the cut of profits between 505 and Sony. And yea, like you I don't know. I'm just offering some ideas as to how this could have played out/ideas as to why 505 was used. Honestly, you could be entirely correct, but I think if they don't own the IP, we'd see it on MS Store in that case since the MS store is not console space. It's perfectly fit to deploy.


Some possible insight as to exception case that is Death Stranding:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ollieb...riking-a-deal-with-microsoft/?sh=54e3955b1c96

Perhaps they didn't want to invest resources into another break even type situation.

As per the original topic: I think imo, I would only start counting the eggs in the basket about trends starting today, after Playstation PC LLC is announced.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

lol I dunno. the revenue from death stranding is 27M. We don't actually know the cut of profits between 505 and Sony.

If there were significant payments from DB/505 to Sony it would need to be stated in their financial report. If Death Stranding is owned by Sony, why have Sony made no comment about the great sales on PC and the $27min revenue on PC? Why were PC sales not mentioned in Sony's own financial reports? Why is Death Stranding not mentioned in any Sony financial reports yet every other first and second party game is?

WHY?