Shadow of the Colossus (Remake 2018) [PS4]

Discussion in 'Console Gaming' started by OCASM, Jun 13, 2017.

  1. eloyc

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  2. London-boy

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    Just put it on. It’s so pretty.
     
  3. ultragpu

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  4. BRiT

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    What game color filter are you running with? Is that the original color filter setting, as it nearly seems gray-scale except for the eye?
     
  5. bunge

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    Are there filters the user can set?
     
  6. BRiT

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    There should be, at least based on what Global posted here:

     
  7. Silent_Buddha

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    So, being a huge fan of the original, I went over to a friend's house to play it as well as watching quite a few streams.

    To start with the graphics look fantastic. Unfortunately that's also the worst part of the game.

    IMO, it has completely lost the feel of the original. Where the original I felt a sense of loneliness, loss, etherealness, a world in decay, a feeling of sad beauty, a longing of what was compared to what is, being lost in a dream unable to wake up, etc. The new one feels, almost soulless. It's a pristine presentation of the original that loses all the subtle touches that managed to evoke so many memorable feelings.

    It's a shame as TLG managed to evoke most of those same emotions (when not being hugely annoyed by the controls) due to its presentation as Ico and SOTC. The SOTC remake just makes me think, this is a good game and a good looking game, and not much else.

    The controls being more responsive is great...if this wasn't SOTC. There's no sense of drama, no sense of weightiness. There's no feeling of consequence. It just feels like a game now rather than an experience.

    I think at the end that would be my conclusions.

    The SOTC remake is a great game in a sea of other games with not much to set it apart. The original SOTC was an emotional experience that put it head and shoulders above other games which offered arguably better gameplay.

    I don't necessarily agree with all of what OCASM has been saying, but after playing it I do have to agree that this "feels" like it was created by soulless technicians rather than soulful artists. They looked at the original and only thought, "How can we make this look better? How can we improve on the visuals. How can we make it look more realistic?" What they instead should have been thinking is, "Why was the game presented in such a way? How can we improve on this while maintaining the spirit, the soul, of the visuals?"

    A weird analogy just came to mind. It's like the new game is the old game after having given it some Prozac. It's happier and more cheerful and most would consider it better than being sad and depressed, but in the process it loses something and feels artificial.

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  8. ultragpu

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    I'm running with the Vivid filter from the Filter menu in the main settings. But these shots are not mine tho, taken from Resetera. So yeah, you can play the game while running any filters from the menu you want which is too cool :).
     
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  9. Recop

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    I don't know what kind of AA they are using, but it's probably the best i've seen on console.

    Also :

    [​IMG]

    Similar sense of epicness than God of War 3. Finally a current gen game that managed to do it...
     
  10. Silent_Buddha

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    One thing that I forgot to mention in my previous post. In their attempt to more realistically portray the landscape, they really messed up on the grassy vegetation. Most of the time it looks, OK-ish, but when you zoom out while riding the horse, or anytime you look down from high overhead, it looks like absolute ass.

    I'm not sure why they didn't go with more shader based grass instead of the 2d grass sprites. From above they just look like a bunch of cardboard stuck in the ground.

    The original had a very unique and memorable look to it. When playing and watching this, all I can think is... This could be Assassins Creed or the Witcher or any other open world game, and I would never know the difference. There is literally nothing that stands out when not actively fighting a colossus.

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  11. Dweeeb

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    [​IMG]

    Haven't seen many comparison images on the forums discussing the remake so I made an account here :). I agree completely and then some with OCASM, the aesthetic is botched a majority of the time and there's a notable lack of attention put into the look of the game. It's definitely updated visually using modern technology, but without a talented art designer making sure it looks good that doesn't mean a whole lot if some scenes are point-for-point inferior to a PS2 game(artistically of course).

    The original game's handling on the particle, lighting, and bloom effects were all dynamic and beautiful and were very much intentional in setting the mood. The remake paying no mind to those touches really just makes this look like a fan project made in Unreal to me. OCASM's write-up about the use of bloom on page 2 has a lot of links showing how amazing the PS2's effects were, if you compare any of the ones he linked to the remake you'll probably notice they're worse. Some are better of course but it's worth noting that they're quite different.
     
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  12. Globalisateur

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    We are trying to tell you guys. It's not a remaster and it's not even a 100% faithful remake. It's like a re-imagined-ish remake with a big emphasis on actual gameplay (as much as they could from a Ueda game :mrgreen:). And it's a very big open world (with current gen level of details / textures) that runs at locked 60fps, even during battles, so it's not graphically perfect.

    But many first timers seem to love it ! And they find the game beautiful. I would be happy to try a new take on the Ueda masterpiece, preferably without my rose-tinted nostalgia glasses. :roll:
     
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  13. Recop

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    The grass looks fine to me even when you look down from high overhead. Moreover, it casts shadows unlike in most other games (even in the 60fps mode).



    Your screenshots are too small but i do agree. Sometimes the original game has a deeper/richer ambience that BP failed to match with its own touch.

    I would say that the original game is usually more dramatic with a darker ambience. But it doesn't necessarily mean that the ambience is not as elaborated in the remake.

    Actually, most of the time BP improved the original game in my opinion :



     
  14. Dweeeb

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    The Dirge fight is one of the most unfavorable for me, his underbelly isn't shadowed in the remake(the neat self shadowing of the original seems absent from all the colossus) and the death scene is out of frame. It was easily my favorite death scene in the PS2 version too, how he'd wiggle around pathetically before falling limp. Don't even get me started on the noises the colossi make now, Dirge's death sound was legitimately sad in the original, in the remake he just grunts.
     
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  15. Silent_Buddha

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    Yes it does have shadowing. But unfortunately that just makes the cardboard grass look even worse when you look at it from above or 3/4 view. You can also see just how sparse the grass is from 3/4 to overhead whereas from directly behind the horse while riding it or when dismounted and just running around, it looks fine.

    IMO, it's a horrible kludge that would work if the player didn't have the freedom to move the camera around.

    After playing it for about a couple hours at a friends house, I'm no longer interested in playing it. The sterile environments (sterile as in any sense of mood or ambience) are just completely off putting when compared to the original.

    One thing I'm glad about the release for, however, is that I've now been playing the original on my PS2 for the past few hours. And it just reminds me of how good the original is (even with the extremely erratic frame rate) and how the remake completely misses the point of the original and completely fails to reproduce in any way the feelings that the original engendered while playing it. And even now, the setting and mood of the original are just SOOOOO well presented.

    The etherealness, sense of loss and loneliness, and mystery that Ueda is so good at is completely missing from this sterile remake..

    Regards,
    SB
     
    #275 Silent_Buddha, Feb 9, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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  16. Globalisateur

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    That is nostalgia talking. And I find that you are going a bit hyperbole here, maybe nostalgia dusted with some salt ? I remember you were also dismissing Bloodborne on PS4 (Dark souls 3 was doing better things that Bloodborne, that kind of thing) and bragged that you watched a playthrough on youtube instead of playing it.

    What make this game special for most people are the Colossi battles and the big desolated environments, those 2 things are even better than before thanks to the controls, framerate and focus on environment details. Not that particular low res fog or bloom implementation.

    And others poster showed that in some places the lighting and atmosphere are even better than in the original.
     
    #276 Globalisateur, Feb 9, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  17. Recop

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    There's self shadowing in the remake :



    Completely absent in the original game :



    I could be wrong, but cardboard foliage doesn't have shadowing (unless baked) and doesn't move...
     
  18. ultragpu

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    So I streamed the original a bit on YT since I never played it, personally I fail to understand how the monotone blurry mess of PS2 version with an over abundant of bloom lighting can be considered anything special in terms of visual presentation, even for a ps2 title. Yes, the concept of fighting those colossis and the general creature design are ingenious but as far as rest of the visual goes it's trash. Like dear god the amount of overblown lighting and sheer grey is nothing short of vomit inducing, how did you guys get through it back then lol? I even love bloom effect but only used with moderation, not covering 3/4 of your damn screen. As far as the remake/remaster hybrid goes, it's perfect so far and because of the lack of NPCs and etc it often times looks like a moving painting to me.
     
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  19. Nesh

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    I think the biggest error was on the character design. Particularly his face, and reaction's. The character seem to react to the context of the situation more, you could see expressions and body language that showed more of his vulnerability and emotional state. His animation had also more clampsiness that evoked better his vulnerability. That vulnerability combined with his achievements made him more impactful as a personality. Let's say Ueda's characters are like Miyazaki's whereas BP's version is a western recreation which lacks the emotion.

    I think this version is now more "heroic" and fearless looking which is the big contrast with Ueda's characters. edit: I think the difference is also cultural. The east values honesty, human emotion and experience in all it's forms, whereas the west values emotional control as a virtue for success.

    But I feel the visual tones of the original would have been achieved only if the aim was to sacrifice detail and realism with artistic effects and minimalism for artistic purposes. But then again that choice might have turned the game's visuals into a niche status. I am sure this discussion would have been a version where OCASM and many others would have been wishing for "a what if" scenario where BP tried to explore the capabilities of the generation and wonder how realistic rocks would have looked otherwise :p . You can't have the same impression from a Claude Monnet painting if Jan van Eyck remakes Monnet's painting with his own techniques. :)
     
    #279 Nesh, Feb 9, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  20. ultragpu

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