Revolution Tech Details Emerge ( Xbox1+ performance, 128 MB RAM )

[Megadrive1988]

maybe this will have to be moved to the console technology forum, I dunno.

http://revolution.ign.com/articles/673/673578p1.html


Revolution Tech Details Emerge


some choice quotes from the article (on IGN's new Revolution channel!)

Readers are advised to make two notes before continuing with this article. The first is that developers are still working with incomplete Revolution hardware. Most studios are, in fact, developing on "GameCube-based kits," according to major software houses we spoke to, which have asked to remain anonymous. The second is that developers are still without final specifications for Revolution's ATI-developed graphics chip, codenamed Hollywood.
That stated, many third parties have been partially briefed by Nintendo representatives about the Revolution hardware, its overall horsepower, and the Big N's plan for the console.

When Revolution was initially unveiled, a Nintendo executive said it would be "two-to-three times more powerful than GameCube." The company never commented on Revolution's horsepower again and we were later told that the initial statement was incorrect. However, according to development houses, that description accurately sums up Revolution's power.

"To be honest, it's not much more powerful than an Xbox. It's like a souped up Xbox," a major third party source revealed to us. "But it's the controller that makes the difference and the controller is really nice."

Third parties have revealed to us that the console will top out with 128MBs of RAM, and possibly even less. One studio would not give us an exact figure, but did say, "The same as GameCube plus an extra 64MB of main RAM." That number is by comparison nearly triple the amount of memory in GameCube. However, it is a far cry from the 512MBs present in Xbox 360.

One studio we spoke to hinted at the possibility of accessing further Revolution RAM, but its comments were cryptic. "There is more RAM that you can use, but Nintendo is using that for general memory, like game saves and all sorts of other things. You could use it, but you can't rely on it." This comment seems to suggest that developers might be able to tap into Revolution's 512MBs of on-board Flash memory, but to our knowledge such a solution would be too slow to utilize in games.

Still, the studios we spoke with are still very intrigued by Revolution and are not ruling out the possibility of additional graphic horsepower. No developer that chatted with us had, or was willing to share, details on the console's GPU, Hollywood. One studio said: "As soon as we find out what it can do then we'll know if Revolution will just be like an Xbox or something a little more."

Asked if it was developing for Revolution, one major third party source said that it was well past the experimental stage and was evaluating what types of games might work on the platform. "We are looking at it quite differently. It's like another current generation platform for us. But it's such a nice controller that it opens up a lot of possibilities. It's very different and it's very precise."

Nintendo has consistently downplayed the role of horsepower with Revolution, often saying that graphics have reached a "saturation point" in today's games. Nintendo bigwig Shigeru Miyamoto has suggested that players might not be able to tell the difference between the new Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess and some high-definition games.

okay I will try to call it: the ATI Hollywood GPU will probably have the equivalent of:

*4 pixel pipes, 4 ROPs, probably LOTS of shading power per pipe though. estimating roughly 1400 ~ 2000 megapixels (1.4 ~ 2.0 gigapixels) in raw fillrate (Gamecube has 648 megapixels)

* probably 4 vertex shaders, ~200M to 400M verts per second (raw)
or 100M verts with lots of pixel shaders, if comparing to Xbox 360's 500M
*clocked at ~350 MHz (if 8 pixel pipes, clock will be lower)
*have Shader Model 3.0 (or equivalent) capabilities

overall, Hollywood will not be as powerful as R520, Xenos, R580, R600........but closer to the RV530 in performance (not in architecture) perhaps.


okay, here's a neat little trick on how to avoid being disappointed in Revolution's specs (whatever they might be exactly) - think of Revolution specs as though they are current-generation, and what the Dolphin / Gamecube could have been if Nintendo had not cut back on the specs, and had produced an Xbox1-beating machine

 

[scificube]

I wish I could say I'm surprised.

I really hope that controller is better than sliced bread. I really do.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Not surprised either.

I do hope it's cheap (sub $200)...including the price of past generation games.

 

[Megadrive1988]

a crude little console performance chart to show where things *appear* to stand based on current info


first, Xbox vs Gamecube

Xbox when Xbox strenghts are exposed
=========
Gamecube
====



Gamecube when Gamecube strengths are exposed
========
Xbox
=======


current Revolution dev kits

=======

final Revolution ?
=================


Xbox 360
===================================================
PS3
===============================================================


very crude, not completely accurate, don't take too seriously

 

[scooby_dooby]

lol, so now gamecuve was more powerful than XBOX?RE4 looks better than Splinter Cell 3? Mmmmm...no I don't think so, not even close.

 

[Megadrive1988]

lol, so now gamecuve was more powerful than XBOX?RE4 looks better than Splinter Cell 3? Mmmmm...no I don't think so, not even close.

Gamecube in some areas is more powerful than Xbox. depending on the specific spec you look at. even though Xbox is more powerful than Gamecube in mnay areas.

overall, the Gamecube and Xbox were pretty close as far as actual in-game output.

the Revolution looks like its going to be somewhat more poweful than Gamecube and Xbox in every area, but still only a fraction as powerful as Xbox 360 or Playstation3.

 

[jvd]

think this can be similar to the ps3 kits with double the ram ?

Perhaps nintendo just gave out gamecube dev kits with more ram on them for programing.

I find it hard to believe that they will go with such a cheap console design. Hell it may be cheaper to make than the gamecube is currently

 

[one]

think this can be similar to the ps3 kits with double the ram ?

Perhaps nintendo just gave out gamecube dev kits with more ram on them for programing.

I find it hard to believe that they will go with such a cheap console design. Hell it may be cheaper to make than the gamecube is currently

The controller is not cheap, however. In addition, it has to have some hardware in the console to process information obtained from the controller.

 

[jvd]

The controller is not cheap, however. In addition, it has to have some hardware in the console to process information obtained from the controller.

I don't see how the basic remote can cost much more than a x360 wireless controller .


As for hardware in the console for the controller how much can ist cost ?

Anyway i was expecting more power than this . Guess we will see soon enough

 

[winstonsmith1978]

well, maybe the rumors about the revolution launching at $99 is true. if this thing is really an xbox with a little extra juice then it has to be less than $150.

especially when you consider it won't launch until November/2006.

This could be really smart or really dumb.

If the system launches for $99 or $129, then i see alot of people purchasing this system. 360 owners will buy, ps3 owners will buy, Nintendo fans will buy and casual non-gamers will buy.

but if it sells for $150 or more, forget it.

 

[Megadrive1988]

I doubt Revolution will sell for less than $200

 

[fearsomepirate]

I'm actually both somewhat relieved and disappointed. I was actually worried that the GPU would be an overclocked Flipper, meaning another fixed-function T&L pipeline. The "souped-up Xbox" bit would seem to indicate that it has actual vertex shaders, so we could see some variant of the Doom 3 engine on it. I was predicting between 128 MB and 256 MB of RAM. I sure as heck hope it doesn't end up being less than 128 MB. I'm also wondering what shader model they'll be using (assuming I understood those comments correctly).

This would also substantiate a rumor I heard earlier that Rev predev kits were GC kits with 128 MB of RAM.

 

[AlNom]

I take it that they are still going with OpenGl then?

 

[see colon]

I doubt Revolution will sell for less than $200

i doubt revolution will launch for more than $200US. the $199.99 price point is something nintendo did right last generation. they beat the competition in price at every turn, and it helped them.

 

[Bill]

I consider Revolution a non starter if this is true. Well, I have all along.

Videogames are about graphics, not controllers.

Also, the specs are shockingly low. Are we assuming $99?

I would have assumed the Rev to be below next gen consoles, but still a solid step up from current consoles.

I just dont see where it gets Nintendo. I dont think the silicon costs on X360 are THAT high. They just aren't. MS plans to break even on hardware by 2007 due to the high priced accessories. And knock out the EDRAM, you know what I think of it anyway. It's arguable a 128 bit bus is more than enough for Nintendos goals.

It doesn't matter the price though. People are going to prefer to pay 399 for PS3 because of the superior hardware.

 

[Ty]

IF true (still waiting for confirmation and I think it only prudent to do so)...

Wow, these specs are a LOT lower than I (or anyone else here it seems) was expecting.

Still 480p should be well within specs and heat dissipation should definitely no longer be a problem.

 

[Megadrive1988]

ATI said a few years ago that both consoles (Xbox2, next-gen Nintendo) would have DX9 level shaders. that means at least shader model 2.0, but probably 3.0. I think Hollywood will be a feature-rich GPU, just not a high performance one. 2 or 4 vertex shaders (or maybe just a very beefy single unit but equal to 2 or 4) and probably 4 or 8 pixel pipelines plus EDRAM and Flipper compatibility.

imagine being able to do Halo2 or Xbox Doom3 at 60fps with better shaders and probably higher polygon count.

 

[jvd]

ATI said a few years ago that both consoles (Xbox2, next-gen Nintendo) would have DX9 level shaders. that means at least shader model 2.0, but probably 3.0. I think Hollywood will be a feature-rich GPU, just not a high performance one. 2 or 4 vertex shaders (or maybe just a very beefy single unit but equal to 2 or 4) and probably 4 or 8 pixel pipelines plus EDRAM and Flipper compatibility.

imagine being able to do Halo2 or Xbox Doom3 at 60fps with better shaders and probably higher polygon count.

well a x1600xt wouldn't be a bad chip . One can deram haha .

 

[one]

I just dont see where it gets Nintendo. I dont think the silicon costs on X360 are THAT high. They just aren't. MS plans to break even on hardware by 2007 due to the high priced accessories. And knock out the EDRAM, you know what I think of it anyway. It's arguable a 128 bit bus is more than enough for Nintendos goals.

If MS end up the distant second in the next gen as in this gen, they won't be able to break even, while Nintendo may be able to collect nice profit.

 

[Jimmers]

Videogames are about graphics, not controllers.

fuh-WHA?! We're living in an age when games like bejeweled, mario party and fusion frenzy are quickly gaining popularity, not for their graphics but for their social and cerebral appeal.

I've got a PC and a GameCube, and the game I spend playing the most is mario party 5, because when people come over, they don't want to play some graphics-drenched RE4 or watch others play UT. They want to play easy to learn, fun, social games.

I can easily see the Rev's controller becoming interesting with 2+ people. You can interfere with people while playing, heck, you could even hit others with it if they're beating you .

It doesn't matter the price though. People are going to prefer to pay 399 for PS3 because of the superior hardware.

Applly the same logic to computers (since consoles are becoming computers anyway). So, why aren't we all posting comments on our X2 4800 with SLI and 4GB RAM?