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Upscaling Technology Has Become A Crutch
- Thread starter BitByte
- Start date
Flappy Pannus
Veteran
Overall pretty fair and reasonable conclusions imo. Notes the advantages of RT and DLSS (especially at lower resolutions) and while the XTX has a large 8GB pool of additional memory, supscisions it may not actually be utilized that much in the lifespan of a card. So it's a difficult call even with a 15% price discount in favour of the 7900XTX.
That being said, if you're going to show benchmarks with differing reconstruction techs at the same-named "Quality" setting, then show what that means. If you talk about how impressive the 7900XTX is in Hogwarts with FSR Quality vs DLSS quality for example, show some in-motion footage to impart to the viewer what 'quality' actually means for each card.
Ultimately though the 4080 should be a $1k MSRP, but obviously they're only going to do that if they get significant market pressure to do that, and that doesn't appear likely anytime soon.
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The market pressure is there and only ratcheting up. It doesn't have to necessarily come from a competitor. A noticeable drop in consumer discretionary spending is a market pressure. Something I expect to be more pronounced in 2024 but we shall see. In the end, if no one buys your goods, you have to drop prices or you're left with dead inventory. As the interest rate pressures continue and consumer credit grows, something will have to give. Realistically speaking, the 4080 should be max $900 but $800 would be about right. $1k imo is far overpriced for that anemic card.
Alan Wake 2 system requirements. I'll preface the rest of my comment by saying this, it's a great looking game. However, If I speak........ Instead, I will just laugh because this is quite funny. 3070 to render at 540p. 4070 to render at 1080p with no raytracing. A great comedy is what this is, a great comedy.
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Deleted member 2197
Guest
Remedy seems to love low res rendering, dont they? They've been getting shit for it since the first Alan Wake and they dont learn better...
What I am sure of is that this game will not be popular on pc since most people can’t run it.
I don't understand why people are shocked that pc requirements are so high when PS5 is now the base console hardware. This happens every time there's a new console generation and support for last gen gets dropped.
This Daniel Owen guy is talking about Pascal gpus being way below spec. It's a 7 year old gpu family. It was released four years before the current console gen, which is now the base target for games. Don't know what people expect. This whole video is so dumb. What is medium settings? No one knows yet, so how can anyone make a judgement about whether the requirements are unreasonable. Same with ray tracing. We have no idea how the ray tracing settings compare. Brings up Cyberpunk, but we have no idea how the visuals at various settings compare. To be honest, I don't even think Cyberpunk looks super cutting edge unless you turn on the highest ray tracing settings.
Maybe the games performance is terrible for the visuals. Maybe it's not. Just getting a little tired of pc gamers hyperventilating over abstract performance expectations before games even come out. Lots of people get wounded egos if they have to lower settings. Maybe the PS5 settings are going to be equivalent to low or medium. We have no idea. I'm leaning low based on the recommendations.
This Daniel Owen guy is talking about Pascal gpus being way below spec. It's a 7 year old gpu family. It was released four years before the current console gen, which is now the base target for games. Don't know what people expect. This whole video is so dumb. What is medium settings? No one knows yet, so how can anyone make a judgement about whether the requirements are unreasonable. Same with ray tracing. We have no idea how the ray tracing settings compare. Brings up Cyberpunk, but we have no idea how the visuals at various settings compare. To be honest, I don't even think Cyberpunk looks super cutting edge unless you turn on the highest ray tracing settings.
Maybe the games performance is terrible for the visuals. Maybe it's not. Just getting a little tired of pc gamers hyperventilating over abstract performance expectations before games even come out. Lots of people get wounded egos if they have to lower settings. Maybe the PS5 settings are going to be equivalent to low or medium. We have no idea. I'm leaning low based on the recommendations.
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Also the requirement graphic looks a bit weird. A 3060 can run 1440p30 (balanced) at 30 fps but a 3070 is 1080p60 (performance). A 3070 is 1.6x the performance in compute of a 3060, so unless the bottleneck is elsewhere it doesn't make a lot of sense to have to lower the output resolution AND the internal resolution to achieve 2x the frames. I would expect it to say 1440p60 (performance mode. Post processing should be done at output resolution, so they're recommending big cuts to hit 60 with a more powerful gpu. Just seems odd.
I'll be really interested to see how this pans out. If those recommendations are to maintain a consistent vsync 60, then it looks a lot better because it would be for the worst case not the general case which could be much higher. I'm hoping I can get 90 fps with a 3080 at 1440p medium with either balanced or performance scaling. If I can get 60fps with ray tracing I might do it. I haven't played a game at 60 fps in years. Not sure if I can go back.
I'll be really interested to see how this pans out. If those recommendations are to maintain a consistent vsync 60, then it looks a lot better because it would be for the worst case not the general case which could be much higher. I'm hoping I can get 90 fps with a 3080 at 1440p medium with either balanced or performance scaling. If I can get 60fps with ray tracing I might do it. I haven't played a game at 60 fps in years. Not sure if I can go back.
cheapchips
Veteran
It's almost like Remedy think top tier visuals are all about effects and lighting, rather than native resolution. Weirdos.
I hear you but here's the thing, if the PS5/Series X is the base resolution, do you think it's ok to release a game running at a 540p internal resolution on those consoles in 2023? To me the answer is a definitive no. If a 3070 which is more powerful than those consoles needs to scale down to 540p, then that's a huge problem for those consoles. Even the 6600xt which is close to console performance is running at sub 900p at 30 fps. Regardless of the effects you're pushing, that is not acceptable presentation in the era of 4k tv's.
DLSS which is widely considered as the best upscaling algorithm cannot save the game from such low resolutions. The net effect is that FSR or what ever half-assed tsr solution they choose to use on consoles will be much worse. Resetting the baseline is more than fine but the visuals should definitely justify the performance cost. Nothing they've shown in the trailers so far is impressive enough to justify those specs especially when you look at those suspect animations.
If a 4070, a newly released gpu costing $599 usd must render at 1080p to hit 60 fps, what exactly are we the doing here? Is remedy resetting the baseline past the established baseline(PS5/XSX)? It is frankly ridiculous. You must also factor in your addressable audience. I guess this game is made for high end pc owners and consoles. Imagine trying to play at 30 fps with a mouse. Crazy times we're in right now.
Finally, the use of DLSS and FSR or it's derivatives should be seen as value added benefits. Right now, they're being treated as requirements and it's very poor. From Starfield to UE5 garbage to now this, we're seeing a multiple fold increase in requirements but a minimal improvement in overall graphics. It's a bad deal so far and people are rightfully complaining.
Ahh yes, the classic let's use a whole bunch of visual effects so our players can't see shit while playing the game. In fact, to make it better, we'll drop the resolution to 540p so it's much harder to see anything. Truly cinematic, very filmic, much wows.
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Resolution is still very important and 1080p with DLSS Performance looks like shit so all your efforts at creating great lighting, textures, and character models will be undermined by a muddy resolution with visual artifacts.
Everything is progress. The first step is to get away from baked lighting and shadow maps. Then over time improve performance to make it run at higher resolution.
If we never take the step to break the barrier we will be forever stuck with baked.
Huh? even the UE5 games that we've been complaining about have not been this bad for this most part. In the case of UE5, you have lumen and nanite to worry about. In AW2, remedy is managing to reach almost ps2 resolutions without path tracing on a 3070. It's inexcusable and has nothing to do with "breaking the barrier".
@BitByte I think you could make a game that's 720x480 that could look better than a game that's "native" 4k. Look at movies on DVD and we're still not close because rendering is more than resolution. Take a frame capture of any recent pixar movie on DVD and it's going to look better than any game you can play.
One thing I've noticed with Remnant 2 is it upscales nicer than other games, and I think that's because it essentially has close to per-pixel geometry and a shadowing system that can handle that high resolution geometry.
One thing I've noticed with Remnant 2 is it upscales nicer than other games, and I think that's because it essentially has close to per-pixel geometry and a shadowing system that can handle that high resolution geometry.
I'd been trying to find that old thread from Zidane1strife about keeping resolutions to 640*480. Mostly everyone here at the time was against keeping resolutions limited to 480p. Now that we're circling back to it I'm looking for itbto see if we can see any parallels to now.
Does it look better if you cant see shit? Theoretically speaking, one could but again you'd just be limiting your addressable market. I guess Remedy don't have to worry about that since they signed a deal with Nvidia to give away the game for "free". Also despite my previous comments, Remnant 2 is not bad....
Dont worry, most people will also not play aw2 and also, I have a 4090 so yea......
I mean, why do you can about the size of their "addressable market." Are companies not allowed to make games that only target higher end hardware? By that logic, Sony shouldn't make PS5 exclusive games, because there is an absolutely massive market of PS4s out there. They should only be making cross-platform games. Between PS5, Series X, Nvidia 20 series and higher, AMD 60x0 and higher they should have a large enough consumer base.