Revolution in June?

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Epik,
read m posts before deciding you can just repeat your usual "not underpowered" line to dismiss them.

and your puting words in nintendo's mouth. They never said it would be underpowered. They have never done that. So I guess nintendo focuses on "power" but its not the whole picture or say all be all

What on earth are you talking about? I never said that Nintendo said it would be underpowered. I didn't even talk in that post about anything that Nintendo had said.

You only seem to comprehend things in terms of "underpowered" or "not underpowered", with no capability to understand that this is a relative isuue and can be guaged differently by people looking from different angles. Whats more, even when people are trying to move away from this very unsuitable, black and white way of looking at things, you try and force the issue back to "underpowered" or "not underpowered", scuppering the chance of discussing anything in a meaningful manner.

You are *extremely* ill equipped to understand the approach that Nintendo have stated they are taking wrt next gen (and took with GC, DS, GBA, N64 etc).

I am only "frustrating" when talking to biased "nintendo is DOOMED" sony and microsoft fans

So why am I finding you to be frustrating then?

 

[Epik]

If the Revolution is coming in June, it means it is most likely on th 90nm process which means if it is the same size as the render. It is physically impossible for the Revolution to have the same amount of power at least theoretically as the other two. This may not be true in practice depending on the effeciency of the Revolution and to what degree the other two are actually tapped. Though to think the Revolution will be just as powerful as the other two without atleast one process drop and being as small as it is thought to be in just plain fallicy unless you think the laws of thermodynamics don't apply to the Revolution.

a 4 core Gekko with altitech(sp?) clocked at 2GHz = 144GFLOPs
without a PPU with a PPU its around 208GFLOPS
but PPUs cost $200 I'll go with 4 core gekko with altitech(sp?)at 2GHz 144GFLOPs

Xenos=115GFLOPs

 

[oli2]

I don't want to play the game "analysing every single word a fellow may have said in a ten minutes speech" (look recent thread about J. Cormack's keynote), but ...

When Iwata presented the box during E3 conference, he said that they were trying to make it even more little.

Could that mean they are trying to use the 65 nm process ?

 

[Epik]

I don't want to play the game "analysing every single word a fellow may have said in a ten minutes speech" (look recent thread about J. Cormack's keynote), but ...

When Iwata presented the box during E3 conference, he said that they were trying to make it even more little.

Could that mean they are trying to use the 65 nm process ?

Oh....

 

[Farid]

Could that mean they are trying to use the 65 nm process ?

For a 2006 release date? Hardly conceivable at the moment. neither IBM, NEC or even TSMC/UMC could mass produce 65nm part next year, it seems (Maybe TSMC and IBM for the Q4 2006?).

 

[Epik]

For a 2006 release date? Hardly conceivable at the moment. neither IBM, NEC or even TSMC/UMC could mass produce 65nm part next year, it seems (Maybe TSMC and IBM for the Q4 2006?).

well intel is coming out with a 65nm chip in 1Q 2006

http://www.dvhardware.net/article3989.html

 

[jvd]

For a 2006 release date? Hardly conceivable at the moment. neither IBM, NEC or even TSMC/UMC could mass produce 65nm part next year, it seems (Maybe TSMC and IBM for the Q4 2006?).

Depends on when next year how many parts they need i would say .

I believe both tmsc , ibm and intel should all have working lines . How much they can produce i do not know .

I think tmsc is doing some testing on thier 65nm lines this year


They could also go with 80nm which i believe is like 150nm

 

[Shifty Geezer]

well intel is coming out with a 65nm chip in 1Q 2006

http://www.dvhardware.net/article3989.html

Two points come to mind. 1) Intel's not providing components for Revolution. 2) Any idea how much that chip will cost?

Sony were hoping for 65nm for Cell, and invested bucketloads of cash into 65nm processing, but it hasn't happened. For mass production at 65nm by mid 2006 there'd need to be a sudden boost to the industry. However the change of heart for Nintendo to launch later does give them more chance to use 65nm which may be the basis of their postponement (that and the fact they still haven't worked out what their 'Revolution' is yet )

 

[Epik]

Two points come to mind. 1) Intel's not providing components for Revolution. 2) Any idea how much that chip will cost?

Sony were hoping for 65nm for Cell, and invested bucketloads of cash into 65nm processing, but it hasn't happened. For mass production at 65nm by mid 2006 there'd need to be a sudden boost to the industry. However the change of heart for Nintendo to launch later does give them more chance to use 65nm which may be the basis of their postponement (that and the fact they still haven't worked out what their 'Revolution' is yet )

so both nintendo and Sony are releasing in 3Q 2006?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

No-one knows. PS3 is expected March '06. Nintendo were going to release alongside PS3l saying 'we're not going to be last', but they've since changed their tune with suggestions of later '06 until we see Revolution. They'll only have a six month or so jump on 65nm technology, from Cristmas this year as they need some months fabbing to stockpile for launch. I don't think they can have been designing chips over the past 2 years or so with the requirement that they'll use 65nm fabbinf tech when there's no gaurentee that tech will be available. If the Rev's case is dependant on the use of 65nm there could be huge delays for the Revolution while Nintendo wait for someone to invent a way to build their machine.

 

[Epik]

No-one knows. PS3 is expected March '06. Nintendo were going to release alongside PS3l saying 'we're not going to be last', but they've since changed their tune with suggestions of later '06 until we see Revolution. They'll only have a six month or so jump on 65nm technology, from Cristmas this year as they need some months fabbing to stockpile for launch. I don't think they can have been designing chips over the past 2 years or so with the requirement that they'll use 65nm fabbinf tech when there's no gaurentee that tech will be available. If the Rev's case is dependant on the use of 65nm there could be huge delays for the Revolution while Nintendo wait for someone to invent a way to build their machine.

Sony PS3 is using 90nm?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Kutaragi said they were hoping for 65nm but it's not ready in time. Can't find the quote but it was from a post E3 interview IIRC, porbably a 'one' Japanese translation.

 

[Teasy]

Nintendo say Revolution will come out at the same time as PS3. Later Sony say that while they planned to use 65nm it will not be ready in time and then Nintendo delay their console until after PS3. I agree that its doubtful that's a coincidence though I also doubt Revolutions components have been designed from the ground up for 65nm either.

 

[Epik]

Nintendo say Revolution will come out at the same time as PS3. Later Sony say that while they planned to use 65nm it will not be ready in time and then Nintendo delay their console until after PS3. I agree that its doubtful that's a coincidence though I also doubt Revolutions components have been designed from the ground up for 65nm either.

I think nintendo will use tri-core Gekko+PowerPC 970MP with AltiVec at 2.5-3GHz at 65nm 191-228.4 GFLOPs and with a PPU its 292.4. but PPUs are expensive($200+ retail) so even if they buy it in bulk ($80-$50 then maybe?) its still going to make REV ALOT more expensive. They could like someone on this thread said add a PPU block(whatever that is) but I don't know the mark-up on a PPU so no one can give an accurate answer.

 

[randycat99]

Just curious, but what will your response be if Rev ends up coming out with something far more simple than what you have spec'd? A single PPE + 1 SIMD, for instance?

 

[Epik]

Just curious, but what will your response be if Rev ends up coming out with something far more simple than what you have spec'd? A single PPE + 1 SIMD, for instance?

I won't have worry about that happening REV will be a middle console like GC was.

 

[randycat99]

You didn't answer the question. This would suggest your mind is utterly closed to even consider the possibility. This is what I had suspected.