R590 - Will we see this beast?

geo said:
GTO wouldn't be about inventory miscalculation, would it?
R4XX GTOs all were/are inventory SKUs (R480, R430, at least). Speaking of R480 in particular, ATi ordered large amounts of wafers while their yields on 130nm Low-K improved considerably, what lead to a lot of supply of working cores and demand wasn´t there anymore. (We know the reasons). So, GTO is all about "selling" your inventory at way lower prices, because you have to much left of it and you don´t want to be sitting on those forever, at least not if you can avoid it. A surplus is always a bad thing if demand doesn´t meet your supply.

geo said:
XT would be, but then maybe they just got tired of being beat up over being short the last 18 months.
It doesn´t exactly work that way, because you don´t order SKUs from the FAB, but instead you do calculate demand with current yield-figures in mind and order a fixed amount of wafers at a given time period. Naturally the XTs are the cream of the crop, but there´s also the XL and there are always some more left which could also be sold later as another SKU. Which means that if ATi orders "too much" of those wafers and at the same time miscalculates yields / market requirements / competition, they will ultimately need to come up with some idea to sell those, so the GTO brand seems to be quite "fitting". They would also need to lower their MSRPs on the other SKUs accordingly.
 
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Sunrise said:
It doesn´t exactly work that way, because you don´t order SKUs from the FAB, but instead you do calculate demand with current yield-figures in mind and order a fixed amount of wafers at a given time period. Naturally the XTs are the cream of the crop, but there´s also the XL and there are always some more left which could also be sold later as another SKU. Which means that if ATi orders "too much" of those wafers and at the same time miscalculates yields / market requirements / competition, they will ultimately need to come up with some idea to sell those, so the GTO brand seems to be quite "fitting". They would also need to lower their MSRPs on the other SKUs accordingly.

It would make for an interesting piece if someone wanted to write one up, the intricacies of dealing with these things. Obviously there are lead times, and cost efficiencies in dealing with/scheduling the fab. . .
 
serenity said:
Yes. I think one of Digitimes previous articles suggested RV560's introduction around CeBIT timeframe.

That would surprise me greatly at this point. A pleasant surprise, of course, but a surprise none the less. I'm thinking more Computex-ish at this point.
 
Dave Baumann said:
No, the X1800's coming out are just knock off R520's. According to A. N. Other AIB, ATI have stopped production of R520 but they have some serious volume left - they are doing some special prices on them, with the GTO config and also cut down XT prices.

So if the X1800GTO's are knock off R520s, then what is R590? It's obviously not what Dailytech wants us to believe.

I wonder how the X1800GTO will do against the 7600GT. There were some leaked benchmarks of the 7600GT on the Xtreme Systems forum, but they were removed.

The X1800GTO supposedly scores 6600 in 3DM05. If it's a leftover R520 SKU we can probably assume that it has a 256-bit memory interface, and probably 3 quads at around 550-600Mhz (X1800XL scores 7100 with 4 quads @ 500Mhz).

The 7600GT scores 5426 in 3DM05, and has 12 pixelpipelines, 5 vertexshaders, core runs @ 500, mem runs @ 500Mhz (rated 1.4ns) with a 128-bit memory interface.

Can we safely assume that the X1800GTO will stomp the 7600GT into the ground when it comes to IQ modes (4xAA/16xAF)?
 
CJ said:
Can we safely assume that the X1800GTO will stomp the 7600GT into the ground when it comes to IQ modes (4xAA/16xAF)?

Probably, but that would explain why Nvidia is hitting 40% margins - they are building cheap targeted solutions for the mainstream to compete with ATi's high-end leftovers :LOL:

But if X1800GTO is supposed to match up with 7600GT, what is X1600 doing?
 
trinibwoy said:
Probably, but that would explain why Nvidia is hitting 40% margins - they are building cheap targeted solutions for the mainstream to compete with ATi's high-end leftovers :LOL:

But if X1800GTO is supposed to match up with 7600GT, what is X1600 doing?

RV530 is probably replaced by RV535, which I assume is a 80nm RV530? According to the same source the new mainstream chip will be the RV535 while RV505 will be the new low-end chip. Both chips should be out in May.

As for RV560... March first samples. Juli/Aug mass production. Aug/Sep volume in retail.
 
CJ said:
RV530 is probably replaced by RV535, which I assume is a 80nm RV530? According to the same source the new mainstream chip will be the RV535 while RV505 will be the new low-end chip. Both chips should be out in May...
Are these ASICs (RV505 and RV535) expected to be new SKU's for the AIBs, e.g. X1350 and X1650 respectively or silent replacements of X1300 and X1600?
 
There are some leaked ATi slides out on the web which show some pricings of the X1K series by putting them up against the GF7/6 range including the GF7300 and GF7600.

Click here

Interesting to see is the addition of the X1900XL at $499 scoring about 9500, the X1800GTO at $249 scoring about 6505 and the X1600XT dropping in price from $169 to $149. And by lowering the price of the X1300Pro from $119 to $99, it's now officially up against the 7300GS (which already had a hard time against the X1300 which nVidia would like to see as a direct competitor).

The weird thing is that the X1800XL has gone up in price from $299 to $329, probably to make more space for the X1800GTO.

Oh and I believe that RV505 is to RV515 what RV370 was to RV380. Just a die-shrink, but unlike X300 vs X600, the RV505 will probably silently replace the RV515 as X1300. Same goes for RV535.
 
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CJ said:
There are some leaked ATi slides out on the web which show some pricings of the X1K series by putting them up against the GF7/6 range including the GF7300 and GF7600.

Click here

Interesting to see is the addition of the X1900XL at $499 scoring about 9500, the X1800GTO at $249 scoring about 6505 and the X1600XT dropping in price from $169 to $149. And by lowering the price of the X1300Pro from $119 to $99, it's now officially up against the 7300GS (which already had a hard time against the X1300 which nVidia would like to see as a direct competitor).

The weird thing is that the X1800XL has gone up in price from $299 to $329, probably to make more space for the X1800GTO.

Oh and I believe that RV505 is to RV515 what RV370 was to RV380. Just a die-shrink, but unlike X300 vs X600, the RV505 will probably silently replace the RV515 as X1300. Same goes for RV535.
Um where did they get their 3dmark numbers for G72 and G73?
 
Fodder said:
Not quite what you're asking, but R200/8500

I think the code name for the 8500 is R250 and not R200, or do you mean R250 and R200?

this may not count, but i think there were some R350's ( 9800 ) that had only an 128Mbit memory controller, I don't know if they were faulty cores or if the manufactures just didn't add enough memory chips to make use of an 256Mbit memory controller.

Back on topic : When it comes to left over R520 cores being sold at a lower price ( as an x1800GTO ), wouldn't the cost of the chip to make, which being high ( comparatively ) be negligible profit wise since the cost to manufacture the R520, would be marked as a loss in a previous financial year?

I'm pretty dumb so i'm probably wrong in my thought.

One last question, is it now the consensus that the RV560 is a 256Mbit part?

Edit : just remembered that i was not on topic at all, i had forgot that the thread was about R590. Sorry to everybody for that.

Also fixed my post up , so it doesn't look like a retarded monkey wrote it ( i think it makes a bit more sense now ).
 
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CJ said:
There are some leaked ATi slides out on the web which show some pricings of the X1K series by putting them up against the GF7/6 range including the GF7300 and GF7600.

Click here

That actually looks top heavy. If X1900xl ends up with clocks similar to X1800xl/X1900aiw, then I rather think it is significantly overpriced at only $50 less than X1900XT.
 
panzeramd said:
I think the code name for the 8500 is R250 and not R200, or do you mean R250 and R200?
R200 = R8500 / R9100
RV250 = R9000
RV280 = R9200 / R9250

There is no R250.
 
OK, so I'm slightly confused now. If X1800GTO is using R520 cores, then it shouldn't have its own code name as DailyTech is claiming. Would that mean that R590 designates the X1900XL instead and that this is a respun R580 core?
 
Unknown Soldier said:
So does this mean that we'll never see a card faster than the X1900XTX until the R600 appears?

Ok .. i'm disappointed.

US
The 1900XTX isn't exactly a slow poke :???:
You could always betatest crossfire if it's not fast enough

So they're using internet scores for the 7600GT?
 
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http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29777

HKEPC has some red hot news for us from ATI, they are apparently releasing a X1900XL at Cebit with a lower core/clock speed as compared to the X1900XTX and XT. There's also news of a X1800GTO soon to be relerased with 12 pixel shaders. It will go against the 7600GT.

And the HKEPC thread identifies X1800GTO as R520-based rather than R590-based.

This makes a lot more sense to me, actually, than that semi-bizarre (from my pov, anyway) dailytech piece.

Whether the GTO parts are based on "good" R520's quad-disabled for marketing rather than failed X1800XL's remains to be seen. It was GTO2 that was full quads in R4xx days, right?

It also would seem to suggest that RV560 is not imminent --X1800GTO is their "7600 fighter" in the interim.

Yes, I did just in fact say that Inq seems more reasonable than the AnandTech spinoff site. :LOL:
 
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