PSN not profitable yet

[Scott_Arm]

I'm not sure which universe exists where Live does not have a huge amount of content in both games (arcade, full titles, add-ons, themes) and movies. My PS3 seems like a barren wasteland of content. Maybe that's because I'm in Canada, and most of their varied content is not available to me. In my mind, that's a strike against the platform. I can get a lot more from Live than I can from PSN, in terms of features, services and content. Netflix is about the only additional service that will work for me in Canada, and that's available on both platforms. Maybe the experience in Europe is a lot different, depending on which country you're in.

Regardless, Microsoft is selling more content and earning more money through online services on the 360 world wide than Sony is through the PS3. Sony, who had a massive stranglehold on the console world last gen, is lagging behind their competitor in the online space. I'm not sure that's even debatable. To me, that is a failure. If they'd come out swinging with an online service competitive with Xbox Live, I think you would have seen sales more in line with last generation in North America. Online is huge over here, and Sony completely missed it. Sony is four years into this gen, and they're still patching together their online world. Microsoft had a head start from last gen and has just kept on rolling. Sony can't afford to mess this up next time around.

Edit: I'd also like to add they've just opened the video store to Canadians this summer, in July. That's 4 years to make movies and tv shows available to Canadians, where those have been available in Canada on Live since day one. I've never actually seen it, and don't know what the prices are like.

 

[Toaddio]

I think that's the point. PSN does not have a set of standard services like Live. With PSN you can't depend on the varying devs/titles to include standard features like voice chat, etc. What's the point of having a network of services if you can't guarantee that every game supports something as simple as voice chat?

Great point! The internet should be shut down until all web pages offer the same features.

 

[Nesh]

This isn't correct, xbl is both a gaming and content network and has been for a very long time, from far before psn was.

We've argued this many times before, and people can list whatever they like regarding all the hodgepodge of services hacked into psn in whatever primitive ways they provide them, like via the antiquated browser, etc. But none of it matters when it comes to people cracking their wallets open if the user experience is terrible. In the Sony vacuum, like if you went from ps2 to ps3 and never sampled anything else, then you will probably tolerate psn or even possibly like it. In the larger landscape though, via clues like said psn non profitability article and xbl pulling in a fortune in cash, it should be abundantly clear by now that people are willing to pay for quality, namely smooth and consistent interface, good content, great user experience, etc. Xbl has this, psn still doesn't. Again, simply look at the profit numbers if you don't feel this is the case. Xbl makes it incredibly easy to spend money because the service is so slick and integrated, be it for games or non gaming content. It's all there, it's all uniform, it's all easily accessible.

Note this is becoming even more important now as the casuals enter the fray. The hardcore gamers are more tolerant to terrible interfaces and yet their wallets still voted with xbl. Casuals are far less likely to tolerate a user experience that is a mess, and this is where psn is at an even larger disadvantage compared to xbl. They need to clean up psn already or they will have a hard time getting casuals and other future impulse buy money.

You know I dont think people are paying subscriptions for the so called better quality service.

I own both platforms. I dont see that "much better" service other for the much better matchmaking and chat room creation.

We pay because we are stuck with no other choice. What are my alternatives on the 360? None. If I want to get the basic function of online multiplay on an awesome game such as Gears of Fucking Awesome War 2 (and soon 3), or Halo I have to pay. And I did pay to play. Until MS decided to ban certain countries from being able to play certain games online. And I was in one of them. Great service isnt it?


Its the awesome games we want to play with friends that do it mostly. Not the "better XBOX live services".I dont buy it.
edit: And since people pay a subscription they will try to squeeze as much as possible out of the offerings.


Remove multiplayer fees and we will see how many would have been paying for the better XBL service in other features that are tied to the Gold Membership

 

[Squilliam]

Great point! The internet should be shut down until all web pages offer the same features.

Every website supports firefox, I.E. and Safari etc for the most part.

 

[patsu]

Won't connect. Won't update friends lists properly. Won't send/receive invitations. Voice chat doesn't work.

Have you tried calling their customer service ? These problems sound more like ISP issues if they happen for all games.

I think that's the point. PSN does not have a set of standard services like Live. With PSN you can't depend on the varying devs/titles to include standard features like voice chat, etc. What's the point of having a network of services if you can't guarantee that every game supports something as simple as voice chat?

It's nice to have a consistent feature set across all games, but the benefits of "a network of services" is actually more than standardized features.

A network allows people to access new content easily.

It allows the developers to update their games as and when needed.

It also enable people to play together for free or for a fee, depending on the quality of service.

Some developers don't have the resources to incorporate voice chat into their games. If it continues to be a void, then there'd be opportunities for someone to offer it as a business.

What psn MP game doesn't have voice chat?

Do all PSN MP games have voice chat ? I don't check because I usually turn it off. I think the point is there are still some missing elements like a common party system.

 

[patsu]

I'm not sure which universe exists where Live does not have a huge amount of content in both games (arcade, full titles, add-ons, themes) and movies.

I wonder who claims that XBL does not have a huge amount of content. ^_^

My PS3 seems like a barren wasteland of content. Maybe that's because I'm in Canada, and most of their varied content is not available to me. In my mind, that's a strike against the platform. I can get a lot more from Live than I can from PSN, in terms of features, services and content. Netflix is about the only additional service that will work for me in Canada, and that's available on both platforms. Maybe the experience in Europe is a lot different, depending on which country you're in.

Canadians seem to be getting the short end of the stick. Besides the usual games, add-ons, themes, Home games, PSN Video store, NetFlix and the NHL video app, I think Sony has only pre-announced Music Unlimited for Canada in 2010. In Canada, the press releases indicate that NetFlix is available to XBL Gold subscribers and all PS3 owners.

Regardless, Microsoft is selling more content and earning more money through online services on the 360 world wide than Sony is through the PS3. Sony, who had a massive stranglehold on the console world last gen, is lagging behind their competitor in the online space. I'm not sure that's even debatable. To me, that is a failure. If they'd come out swinging with an online service competitive with Xbox Live, I think you would have seen sales more in line with last generation in North America. Online is huge over here, and Sony completely missed it. Sony is four years into this gen, and they're still patching together their online world. Microsoft had a head start from last gen and has just kept on rolling. Sony can't afford to mess this up next time around.

Sony have a lot of ground to cover, starting from their failed Connect service. They have come a l-o-n-g way since then. It looks like Music Unlimited, VOD and eBooks are all ready to go in 2011 on a variety of devices.

It'd be a good time to revisit cross game chat and their earlier PS+ survey in 2011.

Edit: I'd also like to add they've just opened the video store to Canadians this summer, in July. That's 4 years to make movies and tv shows available to Canadians, where those have been available in Canada on Live since day one. I've never actually seen it, and don't know what the prices are like.

MS had exclusive NetFlix arrangement. Plus Sony need to implement Qriocity from scratch for Bravia, PS3, PSP, Blu-ray players and soon cellphones. MS has an existing Media Server stack way before Xbox started. For pricing, I believe digital rental is more expensive than traditional disc rental (DVD or Blu-ray - $1.99/Night ?) in Canada. The usual digital movie rental starts from $3.99 in US. TV episode is cheaper.

 

[AzBat]

What psn MP game doesn't have voice chat?

Shifty has mentioned Alien Breed on more than one occasion. Check some of his other posts since there might be others.

Tommy McClain

 

[patsu]

According to here: http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010...-psn-on-tuesday-with-short-controlled-bursts/

Alien Breed 2 has voice chat:

Mark Baldwin | December 6th, 2010 at 6:51 am

Hi, just to confirm, there is indeed voice chat for Alien Breed 2: Assault.

 

[AzBat]

Great point! The internet should be shut down until all web pages offer the same features.

Hyperbole much? If somebody is going to be offering a network for a console to allow gamers to play against each other there needs to be minimum set of features that should be available in every game. Chief among those features should be voice chat. It should not even be optional.

Tommy McClain

 

[patsu]

Voice chat may be in every new MP PS3 game that needs it. It's the party system that needs more work now.

That said, I don't think voice chat needs to be in every MP game. e.g. Demon's Souls plays more uniquely without voice chat. You're forced to play alone there, except for anonymous and (intentionally) untrusted help from strangers. I believe XBL allows the developers to turn off voice chat too.

 

[AzBat]

According to here: http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010...-psn-on-tuesday-with-short-controlled-bursts/

Alien Breed 2 has voice chat now.

Oh goody. Welcome to 2001! LOL

BTW, Dead Nation doesn't have it, but it's coming.

Can't believe a dev would seriously consider releasing a game without voice chat.

Tommy McClain

 

[patsu]

Dead Nation has voice chat, but a bug prevented it from working. They were on a tight schedule because they decided to add co-op to the game last minute without additional cost.

Oh goody. Welcome to 2001! LOL

Yes and no. Online gaming with voice chat is free.
[size=-2]Add a common party system puh-lease ![/size]

 

[Toaddio]

Hyperbole much? If somebody is going to be offering a network for a console to allow gamers to play against each other there needs to be minimum set of features that should be available in every game. Chief among those features should be voice chat. It should not even be optional.

Tommy McClain

Not optional? I prefer to leave the fascism to the politicians.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I wonder who claims that XBL does not have a huge amount of content. ^_^

Canadians seem to be getting the short end of the stick. Besides the usual games, add-ons, themes, Home games, PSN Video store, NetFlix and the NHL video app, I think Sony has only pre-announced Music Unlimited for Canada in 2010. In Canada, the press releases indicate that NetFlix is available to XBL Gold subscribers and all PS3 owners.

Sony have a lot of ground to cover, starting from their failed Connect service. They have come a l-o-n-g way since then. It looks like Music Unlimited, VOD and eBooks are all ready to go in 2011 on a variety of devices.

It'd be a good time to revisit cross game chat and their earlier PS+ survey in 2011.

MS had exclusive NetFlix arrangement. Plus Sony need to implement Qriocity from scratch for Bravia, PS3, PSP, Blu-ray players and soon cellphones. MS has an existing Media Server stack way before Xbox started. For pricing, I believe digital rental is more expensive than traditional disc rental (DVD or Blu-ray - $1.99/Night ?) in Canada. The usual digital movie rental starts from $3.99 in US. TV episode is cheaper.

I would not consider the NHL app to be a part of PSN. It's just an application, like any other you'd download. It's as much a part of PSN as a game like Dead Nations. The app just lets you view the free content from the NHL website on your PS3, but to actually watch games you need a subscription which is about $100-150 a season, and only allows you to watch out of market games, so you can't watch your local team.

PSN video store is 4 years late in Canada. Netflix is available on every platform. It's a nice value-add, I guess, but not exactly a differentiator.

Music unlimited is an unknown. It really depends if they can get content from labels other than Sony owned subsidiaries.

 

[mrcorbo]

Not optional? I prefer to leave the fascism to the politicians.

It's not a matter of fascism. It's a matter of practicality.

There's a very big difference between MS telling developers, "Voice chat is an integrated function of our online service. Here are the ways your game is allowed to interface with it." and Sony potentially telling developers, "We require you to have a voice chat implementation in your game that meets a minimum set of requirements. Here's some information on how you might go about doing that." One is reasonable, the other is not. And one results in a universally functional system and the other is apparently a mess.

 

[patsu]

I would not consider the NHL app to be a part of PSN. It's just an application, like any other you'd download. It's as much a part of PSN as a game like Dead Nations. The app just lets you view the free content from the NHL website on your PS3, but to actually watch games you need a subscription which is about $100-150 a season, and only allows you to watch out of market games, so you can't watch your local team.

By your definition, NetFlix would fall under the same category. It's a separate app, usable by all PS3, iOS and PC owners, but only for Gold XBL subscribers on 360.

You need to subscribe to it separately. You can watch its content from other devices. It's not part of XBL or PSN per se.

You'd still have PS Video and Music Unlimited for Canada.

PSN video store is 4 years late in Canada. Netflix is available on every platform. It's a nice value-add, I guess, but not exactly a differentiator.

Music unlimited is an unknown. It really depends if they can get content from labels other than Sony owned subsidiaries.

Music Unlimited is advertised to have 6 million songs at launch, half of iTunes':
http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/22/sonys-music-unlimited-subscription-service-ready-to-stream-tune/

Sony today announced the launch of "Music Unlimited powered by Qriocity™", a new, cloud-based, digital music service which gives music lovers access at any time to millions of songs from major labels including Universal Music Group, Sony Music Entertainment, Warner Music Group and EMI Music as well as leading independent labels and major publishers worldwide. The "Music Unlimited powered by Qriocity" catalogue will initially offer about six million songs and will continue to expand over time.

It's streaming only for now. Will work on PC, Sony Internet devices and Android phones (in the future).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't quite agree. It's a matter of detail, but the services that PSN offers seem to work equally well as rival systems. What you are complaining about are services that are not offered by PSN and consequently vary with each title/developer.

That may be true of VC, but the friends list and invites are Sony's network systems, and these are buggy (for me).

Even if true, I don't think that makes PSN a relative failure.

Though I agree with your sentiments, success is measured against a target, and everything will be a relative failure if measured against too high a target. To be accurate, success should really be measured according to what was set out to be achieved. In that respect I think PSN has done well in attracting a userbase onto a network of content and selling to them.

You know I dont think people are paying subscriptions for the so called better quality service.

We pay because we are stuck with no other choice.

I suppose the argument is you can always choose not to pay. I don't partcularly agree with that, but it's true on paper anyhow. Regards PSN's profitability though, if Sony wanted to charge for it, they'd need to imrpove it, which I think is the major argument. At the moment I wouldn't pay for PSN access because it doesn't work well enough to be worth any amount of money! If Sony want a subscription off me, they'd need faultless network gaming services. So looking at Sony monetising PSN as per this report, I think that's where some people's attention is. Personally I think the content services are what Sony ahve an eye on. After all that's what PSN+ is.

Alien Breed 2 has voice chat:

AB 1 release without VC. Dead Nations released without VC. These are games release in recent months. This past ~year there have been others like Borderlands.

Really? When?

Often when I try to play online. Are you calling me a liar?!

 

[Toaddio]

Why is voice chat a necessary feature while free play isn't? The truth is if those two features were on opposite systems people would be arguing about how free is essential even at the expense of voice chat and those arguments would still be turning a thread about one system's profitability into an off topic versus thread.

 

[Scott_Arm]

By your definition, NetFlix would fall under the same category. It's a separate app, usable by all PS3, iOS and PC owners, but only for Gold XBL subscribers on 360.

You need to subscribe to it separately. You can watch its content from other devices. It's not part of XBL or PSN per se.

You'd still have PS Video and Music Unlimited for Canada.

Music Unlimited is advertised to have 6 million songs at launch, half of iTunes':
http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/22/sonys-music-unlimited-subscription-service-ready-to-stream-tune/

It's streaming only for now. Will work on PC, Sony Internet devices and Android phones (in the future).

I don't consider Netflix to be a core feature either. Until recently, it was only available in the USA. I imagine the exclusivity with Live made the Xbox very attractive for a while, but now it's available on just about any media device. Not having a Netflix client would be a strike against a platform. But we're still only talking about North America with that one.

Music unlimited sounds like it could be a hit. I haven't heard much talk of it. Everyone has been expecting Apple to do the same thing for years, but it hasn't happened yet. Maybe Sony can get there first and make it a big deal.

Sony is definitely making an effort to improve their online network. I guess we'll see what happens, but from my perspective we're quite a ways into this generation for them still to be figuring out what they're doing. You always want to improve your services, but Sony started out very poorly and it hurt them.

 

[green.pixel]

It also doesn't help that PS3 players are far more singleplayer focused, they're not predominantly the "brogamers" that play on 360 Live.

I mean where on the 360 do you get single player only games that are not open world and with a linear campaign and only 6-10 hours of gameplay sell well, such as Heavy Rain and GOW3?

GoW3 can casily attract "brogamers" too.