PS4 Pro Speculation (PS4K NEO Kaio-Ken-Kutaragi-Kaz Neo-san)

[DuckThor Evil]

2x the CU's is going to make a big difference to PSVR image quality.

On the not splitting the user base part - just because they aren't doing that for day one doesn't mean they won't allow it a few years down the line. You could see PS4k/PS5 only cross gen titles.

I think so too. It should allow PSVR games to be rendered in far higher resolution and perhaps regular 1080p games like Uncharted 4 at 60fps. I think it's unlikely we'll see major asset quality or complexity changes between the base PS4 and the 4k versions.

 

[kalelovil]

The mild CPU upgrade is disappointing.
I was hoping for Zen, so that future cross-platform PC-PS4Neo titles would no longer be designed around the performance limitations of ~2Ghz tablet-targeted Cpu cores.
I'm surprised they still stuck to Jaguar given it was a common topic of criticism from Ubisoft, SOE, and other developers.

I guess Sony (understandably) really want to avoid having PS4Neo titles which won't run on the base PS4.

 

[Prophecy2k]

This sounds like the right way to position the device as far as I'm concerned.
The major take-home is that PS4k ISNT PS5.... It's not a generational transition, nor is it a sign they are moving to more frequent iterative upgrades with foward compatibility. Provided this rumour is true of course, it assuages all my fears.

It's more than likely that PS5 will release in two to three years time and be the best that Sony can fit within their silicon/TDP budget. Thus I have no problem with a suped-up PS4 as an alternative option for power buyers. Plus, it seems Sony is actively looking to ensure the gaming experience for regular PS4 owners is not degraded or devalued in anyway. I applaud them for that.

They should price PS4k as a real premium piece of kit and make bank on the high margins. I'm def going to buy the sh!t outta the thing.

 

[fellix]

The mild CPU upgrade is disappointing.

Well, the focus is clearly on the graphics throughput for this upgrade. But 31% percent CPU clock boost is a nice performance bonus, anyway, for not bothering with new architecture.

 

[DieH@rd]

This is great HW combo for a console that will sell for $399, with some concessions given to make console fully compatible with original PS4 hardware [sticking with the same CPU]. A GTX970-level GPU in a fixed console box! I can't wait to play Horizon on it.

Hot having Neo-exclusive games is a good thing, not having Neo-exclusive gameplay/content is also a good thing. Sony is marketing this as a mid-gen upgrade that will not damage existing PS4 users, which is IMO a good thing.

PSVR currently runs great on PS4, and it will run even better on PS4K. I wonder if good adoption of PS4K will push Sony into releasing PSVRv2 in late 2017 with 1440p screen.

 

[fellix]

nvm

 

[Love_In_Rio]

I think so too. It should allow PSVR games to be rendered in far higher resolution and perhaps regular 1080p games like Uncharted 4 at 60fps. I think it's unlikely we'll see major asset quality or complexity changes between the base PS4 and the 4k versions.

In five years they could launch PS5 and instruct to make a PS4 base version at 720p. Playing with resolution gives much game.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

My biggest problem by far is...that by nature most of this supplemental power will now simply effectively idle (or be sapped up in low return usage like AA) (just like a high end PC). You will have a box with two times the power of your PS4 with games that look 5-10% better, if that.

This isn't really an issue. That is, I think it's one of those issues that the brain identifies when it's really thinking, but isn't based in anything tangible and will be overlooked in use even by you.

When you play a game, does it bother you if it isn't maxxing out your hardware? Do you refuse to buy indie games, or play mobile games, that aren't using 95% of hardware cycles constantly with the fan ramped up full? Has it ever occured to you that you weren't getting your money's worth on such games? Or do you just play? What about your Smart TV. Do you refuse to buy one because most of the time those 4 cores will be doing nothing? And you refuse to buy the latest mobile device because no-one's targeting it, right? So you won't buy an iPad Air 2 to replace your aging iPad 3 because no games use its substantially greater power as they all target the iPad 3+ install base.

The internals are basically irrelevant. You pay for a product to serve a purpose. PS4K will be a PS4 with better IQ/framerate, and if it does that job at the price people want to pay, it really doesn't matter what it has inside. The engineering should be finding the minimum hardware to enable that. BW for me seems the biggest concern.

And for all we know, when PS5 comes out maybe PS4k will play PS5 games in lower quality!

 

[Globalisateur]

380X is at 3.9 Tflops with 184GB/s mem bandwidth

Yes but PS4 GPU has to deal with some important bandwidth contention with the CPU, unlike PC.

As such, there will be no NEO-only games, and Sony will not let developers separate NEO users from original PS4 players while playing on PSN. Likewise, Sony explicitly and repeatedly states that developers cannot offer exclusive gameplay options or special unlockables for NEO players

That was exactly what I was expecting: Mandatory cross compatibility between both models.

Disappointed about the mild CPU overclock (if true). Expecting a much higher one.

The GPU would be ~4.2 Tflops.

 

[hesido]

I don't like this. It defies what consoles meant to me. Sure, there's always room for improvement. But I don't want to end up getting caught in the iterative upgrade cycle. Jumping ship by the start of PS5 gen.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But I don't want to end up getting caught in the iterative upgrade cycle.

Then choose not to. You don't have to buy the latest phone/TV/car/washing machine/sewing machine/digital piano/GPU/... whenever it's released. Your existing phone/TV/car/washing machine/sewing machine/digital piano/GPU/... doesn't decrease in quality when a new model comes out, and still serves the purpose for which you bought it to the same standard it was managing the day before the new release.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

Well, the focus is clearly on the graphics throughput for this upgrade. But 31% percent CPU clock boost is a nice performance bonus, anyway, for not bothering with new architecture.

a 5 watts cpu is so disappointing in this moment... and Iphone 6s will have a far better CPU than the new shiny Neo console that would be even more CPU limited that before. Besides this doesn´t fit with wanting better frame rates for PSVR.

If Ms goes all in with the ZEN, HBM and all the sauces (as per Phil Spencer last claims could be thought) there will be a lot of "hardcores" jumping ships, me the first.

 

[goonergaz]

If it also plays normal PS4 games at better res/framerate than the existing PS4 then those owners will feel (rightly) upset

Why? People can upgrade and those with a PS4K will be paying a premium. This is no different to when the latest GPU comes out on PC...the only reason people will get upset is if a game is really bad on PS4 but it looks like Sony are trying to stop that from happening.

I don't like this. It defies what consoles meant to me. Sure, there's always room for improvement. But I don't want to end up getting caught in the iterative upgrade cycle. Jumping ship by the start of PS5 gen.

Like shifty says, you don't have to. All games will work on both anyway.

From my PoV I'm a little sad the CPU (which is already a weak spot) isn't getting a better upgradebut give me this and the new RDR

 

[Jupiter]

This would be an unbalanced system. Like a bad PC (Titan X with underclocket Dualcore). Haha

The CPU was already a bottleneck before.

 

[hesido]

Then choose not to. You don't have to buy the latest phone/TV/car/washing machine/sewing machine/digital piano/GPU/... whenever it's released. Your existing phone/TV/car/washing machine/sewing machine/digital piano/GPU/... doesn't decrease in quality when a new model comes out, and still serves the purpose for which you bought it to the same standard it was managing the day before the new release.

And I don't buy the latest phone / TV / Car etc. etc. I don't game on my phone, so as long as it can load beyond3d and let me talk, it's fine. Unless Beyond3d begins targeting the latest Samsung Galaxy S8, I'm fine. The roads I drive and the maximum speed I can go on a road hasn't changed in the last 5 years I bought my car so I'm planning to keep it. My sewing machine is compatible with the latest threads, although it's single threaded, it sews just fine. A console is also not subject to the wear and tear of a phone. Last time I upgraded my phone was when my replacement battery began to die so quickly, and it's microusb was damaged so I couldn't properly exchange stuff between my PC and the phone. My current phone's headphone jack is damaged, I replaced the screen that cracked, its vibration function is not working. I'm planning to keep it as long as it works.

Updating wasn't something to worry about on a console this many years into the Console's life. Now, there's that option. And I worry about that option and have to judge how much better a game runs on the PS4K before I shell out that money.

And to think that existence of such a product does not affect my experience on the original PS4 is at best wishful thinking. Devs will target 60fps on the PS4K, 30fps on the PS4. It's much easier for them this way, instead of getting the PS4 version to run at 60, now they can make beautiful-screenshot games looking exactly the same on the PS4 and PS4K; only 30fps on the PS4, but hey, perfectly playable, and yes, 60fps on the PS4K. Devs now how that option, and they will take that option, leaving me with my 30fps games.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

This would be an unbalanced system. Like a bad PC (Titan X with underclocket Dualcore). Haha

The CPU was already a bottleneck before.

Think about it for a second: It would be a system in which an Iphone 6s CPU addition would make it more powerful...

 

[London Geezer]

 

[Prophecy2k]

Yes but PS4 GPU has to deal with some important bandwidth contention with the CPU, unlike PC.



That was exactly what I was expecting: Mandatory cross compatibility between both models.

Disappointed about the mild CPU overclock (if true). Expecting a much higher one.

The GPU would be ~4.2 Tflops.

CPU BW on PS4 is 20GB/s max.

4.2 / 3.9 x 184 = 198 GB/s simply scaling the R9 380x.

Add 20 GB/s for the CPU and that gives the rumoured 218 GB/s BW.

Not sure how the GPU will be anymore BW starved than the R9 380x then...?

 

[Deleted member 13524]

380X is at 3.9 Tflops with 184GB/s mem bandwidth

Plus, Liverpool has the CPU limited to 20GB/s. Even if this number is increased for the new CPU with higher clocks, say 24GB/s, the new GPU gets 194GB/s for itself with 4.2 TFLOPs. This is very close to Tonga's bandwidth/compute.

 

[itsmydamnation]

Think about it for a second: It would be a system in which an Iphone 6s CPU addition would make it more powerful...

so what would you go with , remember 128/128 L/S a core, 8 cores, 2 128bit avx units a core maybe 25watt TDP and about 50 odd mm2sq
you need throughput as well as robust execution.