PS4 Pro Speculation (PS4K NEO Kaio-Ken-Kutaragi-Kaz Neo-san)

[Grall]

Even if it means the existing ps4 guys now get games running at 15fps?

I would assume Sony would prevent such a thing from occurring. They have 30+ million existing customers they want to keep happy, that's significant incentive.

and at least one USB on the rear!

If they implement native SATA, they could just re-route the USB they're using for internal HDD for external use. Wouldn't cost them more than a penny for the USB socket...

 

[McHuj]

I'm looking forward to Frostbite running at full 1080p/60 (already does 900p/60 in Battlefront) in the next Battlefield game. I'll probably upgrade just for that.

 

[mpg1]

Aren't the new graphics api's like DX12 (YES, I know PS4 doesn't use this) and Vulkan suppose to maximize performance the most in hardware like this (ie. weak cpu's with many cores). I would imagine Sony has implemented those features into GNM api.

 

[mpg1]

Also I am glad that apparently Sony has straightforward dev guidelines. I'm expecting with those dev guidelines combined with dev time/budget constraints we will basically see PS4 games that are running at higher res on the neo console. And I'm ok with that.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If we could peek the Naughty Dog´s CPU scheduler there would no human way they launched an Uncharted 4 at 60fps without doubling the CPU resources.

That's probably true. Where framerate is CPU bound, this Neo spec doesn't really help. Unless there's an awesome GPU-based frame tweening algorithm that can be plugged in! That'd be pretty cool. Unrealistic though. But otherwise, that's a lot more GPU for the same framerate. What dev is going to create improve assets for a niche device?

It's not pointless. It's for people with 4K tvs.

Which is how big a market? I don't think that's an audience worth pursuing. Gamers wanting a superior experience is definitely a decent sized slice of the console sector, but 4K owners with a set they'll see the difference on and a willingness to pay extra for higher res? Maybe if I experienced 4K I'd appreciate it more?

The other more likely target is VR, with games running at the same framerate as PS4 but using higher quality PC assets. Only the device wouldn't be called VR as that'd confuse consumers into thinking they need that model and not PS4 basic.

 

[mpg1]

Alsooo....assuming that Sony does start a whole new gen with PS5 I don't understand the argument that it will still probably be out in just 2-3 years from this. If anything releasing this new console extends the generation. I would not be expecting anything until at least 2020 probably 2021.

 

[fellix]

Aren't the new graphics api's like DX12 (YES, I know PS4 doesn't use this) and Vulkan suppose to maximize performance the most in hardware like this (ie. weak cpu's with many cores). I would imagine Sony has implemented those features into GNM api.

Developers already have low-level access for PS4. The new features support is more interesting in this case, especialy if Polaris targets top tier FL12_1 compliance for DX12 and how that could be exposed for Neo.

 

[fehu]

It's not directly related to the topic, but can't stop thinking that xbox has been dreamcasted. Hope for a new powerstone now.

 

[Transponster]

I wonder if it's even able to render The Order at 4K(3840x1600) without MSAAx4, and will they "patch" it?

 

[London Geezer]

It's time to buy this then... I mean, it's £5,000 off the 'retail price' of £10 grand! 50% discount!

 

[London Geezer]

I wonder if it's even able to render The Order at 4K(3840x1600) without MSAAx4, and will they "patch" it?

If that means having to play through that thing again, I will rather use the limited time I have to do other things with my hands.

 

[function]

That's probably true. Where framerate is CPU bound, this Neo spec doesn't really help.

Well they'll have an extra 30% on the CPU, and things like simulation, AI scripting etc may be 1:1 with the PS4 base version leaving a greater than 30% increase in CPU time effectively available for rendering related activities. And if you could juggle work to now have a core or two completely free for rendering, and that core is also significantly faster you might see some big gains? So I wouldn't rule out CPU bound areas being able to see a significant uptick in frame rate ...

 

[mpg1]

It's not directly related to the topic, but can't stop thinking that xbox has been dreamcasted. Hope for a new powerstone now.

Maybe, by the sounds of it though Sony is still essentially forcing devs to target base model PS4. So that won't change much in terms of development targets that we have now.

However, if Sony is going to be selling this at $399 the other consoles are going to be hard sells, especially Xbox One. I would not be shocked if Microsoft preempts this move by slashing Xbox One price to something like $249. Probably coincide price reduction at the same time they launch Xbox Slim.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

Well they'll have an extra 30% on the CPU, and things like simulation, AI scripting etc may be 1:1

That´s the problem. If cpu task threads are 1:1 and your cpu time is already 33 ms per frame you are going nowhere without doubling your cpu power to get the 16 ms.

 

[function]

That´s the problem. If cpu task threads are 1:1 and your cpu time is already 33 ms per frame you are going nowhere without doubling your cpu power to get the 16 ms.

That's assuming you intend to go from 30 to 60 fps, of course. If you want to eliminate dips to 45 and stay at 60 then the faster CPU could be a big benefit.

Don't forget that in your 33ms CPU time example, it may well include some work that doesn't increase with frame rate (e.g. simulation, sound, scripting). It's possible that, depending on the nature of the workload and how it can be scheduled, a 30% bump in CPU could net you a greater than 30% bump in frame rate on CPU limited sections of game.

Put perhaps overly simply, If your renderer takes 30% of CPU time, then another 30% of CPU time could allow you to double your frame rate. For example. In theory.

 

[London Geezer]

Also, a passing thought, what would it take for games to start outputting for the new HDR-enabled TVs?

 

[kalelovil]

Any ideas for where the extra 512MB memory budget 'in Neo Mode' is coming from? Perhaps the functionality (and RAM) of the Secondary/Low Power Processor has been expanded (or was it never active in the PS4?).

 

[function]

Also, a passing thought, what would it take for games to start outputting for the new HDR-enabled TVs?

Probably only a suitable HDMI output (HDMI 2.0a?) and the ability to encode a buffer and send it down the bus.

Don't see why PS4K wouldn't support it.

 

[mpg1]

"I don't like the fact that there is a better version of the console that I bought only 2 years ago! That's it I'm done with playstation and moving to PC (even though it's an ecosystem where people can spend 1000's of dollars on GPU's alone)"....basic logic of comments on reddit.

In other words "I don't like that this ecosystem isn't pure socialism! So I am moving to the one that is allows more freedom and choices to the consumer!"

 

[function]

Best thread title in a long time.